On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 11:07:33 +0200 jiho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: > On 2007-August-05 , at 00:13 , Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 18:51:10 +0200 jiho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: > >> First of all, it was not my intention to start a flame war or > >> anything. It is just my personal opinion that what lacks the more > >> cruelly to Linux desktop currently is consistency and keybindings is > >> one particularly clear example. I hoped that mentioning it on this > >> list, where the problem is regularly brought up, would get the ball > >> rolling to the correct people (be they freedesktop or someone else). > >> Anyway, I happily use Mac OS X (where keybindings are quite > >> consistent and can be edited easily anyway) and won't "fight" for > >> linux to get better... I just hope it will, because I like the > >> development model more ;-) > > > > here's the problem. in windows or OSX - you have no CHOICE. you get > > your "wm" > > with the bindings it comes with - and that's it. sure - some of > > these bindings > > can be changed - and that is no different to x11 and window > > managers -the > > difference being there is not just 1 wm. there are many - with many > > many many > > different features, ideas and design goals. they will all probably > > have > > different needs for bindings based on these features. asking every > > wm to NOT > > use some modifier or to all use exactly the same isn't going to > > happen - > > Actually, this is what I hope will happen ;) I don't think everything
there is already convergence - and frankly alt+mouse buttons is very common amongst wm's - especially modern ones. it's expected. so it really is up to you to work around that and not want to use alt + mouse by default. > can work with everything else if there is not at least a little > planning done ahead. This kind of planning is done for each program > but currently independently because most are managed by different > teams. It would be good to have this done at a little higher level, > for the purpose of unification. I think this can be compared with > document formats: of course every word processing software could work > with its own, custom made format but wouldn't it be better if all > used odt? I think it would. and you end up with massive standards, lowest-common denominators. wm's with more features can't providing bindings by default because they are not allowed by the default "standard", and you get a lot of fighting. in the end your biggest example is not going to go (i think) as many wm's use it by default. i know my users have expected it to be there for 8+ years. i have used it for that length of time. in the end "we were here first" so to speak :) > Of course the point is not to force every WM to do change its > keybindings but I think it wouldn't hurt to have a standard defined, > for interoperability and best usability, and then projects who care > can adopt it. FreeDektop seems to be the right organization to define > such a standard and, in my opinion, this standard should be "use > META, and combinations of META with other modifiers, for all WM/ > desktop level keyboard shortcuts" for the reasons I explained in my > previous email. i disagree. alt and alt+ctrl for wm use. you get to use meta. wm's took alt +mouse first :) i know that on a rare occasion a user complains they can't access feature X in gimp - my answer is "change your config then" - as we have that option here. do you have such an option? no. i think it is inkscape's job to provide that - wm's have made themselves flexible for apps - apps need to make themselves flexible for wm's. this is a 2 way street. i can tell you now that there is no way i am changing to use meta - mainly because it isn't available by default in most xservers. my users would kill me if we changed. and i would be extremely annoyed. it's your job to use meta/super/hyper etc. and provide ways to set up such usage. we already have those options in wm land. :) > JiHO > --- > http://jo.irisson.free.fr/ > > -- ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) _______________________________________________ xdg mailing list [email protected] http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg
