Good comments Rachel. I'd again bring up the point I've made earlier in the
list about the semantics, syntax, and medium of human and machine
interchange.
"Electronic data interchange" involves an "electronic/electrical" medium of
exchange, the syntax (structural rules) of exchange, and the semantics
(meaning) of exchange. I have also previously labeled these medium, syntax,
and semantics terms as information Carriers, Containers, and Content,
respectively.
Carriers/Medium would be electronic Value Added Networks (VAN), private
networks (LAN/WAN, intranet, extranet), public Networks (Internet or Public
Telephone - PT), etc., along with the physical carriers such as
shipping/transportation companies, USPS, UPS, Fedex, etc.
Containers/Syntax would be some form of data packaging/storage and
behavior/methods using SGML, XML, SQL, SMTP, HTTP, S/MIME, EDI Maps, etc.
Content/Semantics would be the data itself, in a meaningful, defined, and
shared context (X12, EDIFACT, and other vocabularies and messages)
documented and baselined in a common reference such as a dictionary.
This data interchange would them be applied for purposes of integration and
communication within a "value lattice" (i.e., a multilinked value-chain -
http://one-world-is.com/rer/owis/dem/slides/img006.gif) (e.g., workflow,
application integration, enterprise application integration, B2B for direct
relationships, ...B2B2B2B.... for single-resource-thread relationships, and
E...2B2B2B2B2...R
E...2B2B2B2B2...R
E...2B2B2B2B2...R
E...2B2B2B2B2...R
forming a global lattice of direct and indirect economic/ecological and
other relationships flowing from activities to Extract materiel from the
natural enviroment and information from virtual environments to activities
to Recycle materiel and information back into the respective natural or
virtual environments -
http://one-world-is.com/rer/owis/dem/slides/img092.gif.)
The choice of Carriers and Containers will evolve with technology (e.g.,
private nets vs VAN vs Internet) and understanding of context (e.g., B2B,
E2B2B2B2R), while the Content/Semantics will always involve humans seeking
and agreeing to communicate, collaborate, coordinate, and share.
Roy
-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Foerster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 2:47 PM
To: 'XML/EDI Group'
Subject: Is the Internet/XML Going to Kill EDI?
1. Will the Internet enhance or replace EDI? How and why?
A: One first must understand what EDI is....at its basic definition, it's
electronic
data interchange. This means that companies exchange data electronically so
that it can automatically be processed by an automated, intelligent business
system.
Second, one must then understand what is meant by the question will the
Internet
replace.....etc.? Fundamentally, the Internet is a huge global network of
computers
providing almost instantaneous connectivity. Thus, it's actually the pipe or
conduit
that data/information/other objects can travel through to get from one
computer
to another. I think that what is actually being asked by this question is
will the World
Wide Web or the Web replace EDI.
Of course, the answer is no.....the Internet and the Web will only add more
capabilities
and flexibility for companies who wish to engage in electronic business
information
exchanges.
However, to many people, EDI is actually the current standards or rules (the
ASC X12
Standards, for example) that are used to structure data for electronic
exchange.
Hear, hear, Steve,
Now, to pick up on your closing comment about XML not being a silver bullet,
etc. I offer the following perspective.
This was information I provided to an editor of a health care trade journal
since the health care supply chain is mightily
struggling to take the cost out.
Rachel
"Q1. Will the Internet enhance or replace EDI? How and why?
A1. Today, we have a �Tower of Babel� for electronic data exchange,
proprietary flat file formats, proprietary non-standard uses of the ASC X12
standards and inconsistent use of the ASC X12 standards. XML therefore is
being
touted as the killer of EDI. However, since XML has not
yet matured to the level of X12, there is no standard data dictionary, no
standard tags, and no use of XML. Thus, we are actually back to the days
before we had X12 as a standard with individual organizations doing their
own thing with XML. This actually does little to accomplish data exchange
and systems interoperability, and in my opinion, even thwarts this goal.
The issue is cost to manage and exchange information. Ultimately all of the
cost within and throughout the supply chain gets translated into higher
product costs.
The real heartburn has been the decades of attempts to easily, reliably and
cheaply exchange data automatically between automated business systems
and/or humans without having to write/rewrite custom interfaces. The
expectation
is that XML will become that universal computer language of the Internet and
the Web that will enable and facilitate. It is this that I think people are
thinking
of when they say the Internet will kill EDI.
There is major global joint effort between UN/CEFACT and OASIS with hundreds
of participants from all over the work (the ebXML Initiative) working to
bring more standardization and consistency to using XML in order to
accomplish the end goal.
Q2. What's the misperception you've been hearing about regarding EDI and the
Internet wihtin the healthcare industry?
A2: One of the primary reasons why healthcare is having such a difficult
time
with X12 is that there hasn�t been a real commitment by individual
organizations to first of all understand the standards, and then to use them
consistently across the supply chain. There is a lot of lip service to this
concept, but when the rubber hits the road, the big companies still tell
their trading partners to do it �my way.� This doesn�t only occur in
healthcare, by the way; it�s all over the globe.
The security fears for purchasing via the Internet are bogus. There is much
more insecurity when using a credit card to make a purchase from a direct
mail catalog, over the phone directly from a supplier, and even giving your
credit card to a sales clerk or waiter in a restaurant. The real issue is
not one of security, but rather one of privacy, and that goes far beyond
just purchasing.
This will not happen overnight, but it will never happen for the healthcare
industry if it doesn�t get involved. There is too much backward-looking
focus on traditional EDI. Those that are looking at new and emerging
technologies are doing so with the intent to lock out competitors and lock
in customers. The Internet and the Web and XML are not the vehicles
or the methods to do this. What is? Unrelenting superior focus on the
customer.
Too few organizations really achieve this; they just talk about it."
Rachel
|-----Original Message-----
|From: Steve Bollinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
|Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 6:56 PM
|To: XML/EDI Group
|Subject: Can we all get along? (i.e. Peace, Love and Happiness)
|
|
|A mail list is a lot like the First Amendment. They are both
|about freely expressing one's opinion and commenting on the
|opinions of other. The beauty of both of these is that they
|create an environment in which ideas can evolve and we can all
|benefit. We are free to evaluate data for ourselves. This occurs by:
|
|1. exchange of ideas
|2. brainstorming new ideas
|3. debating ideas
|4. criticizing ideas we consider to be invalid or flawed somehow
|
|This fourth point is just as necessary as the rest. It can
|ruffle feathers, however.
|Three solutions I see for the ruffles are:
|
|1. Have a thicker skin (from Rachel). Don't take sarcasm as
|personal. Instead see it as professional roasting (humor
|involved) from one's peer(s). The most effective response to
|such sarcasm is an appeal to reason on the issues. Then you
|look far better than the sarcastic attacker especially if his
|ideas are flawed somehow. Keep your cool = come out ahead.
|
|2. Better Netiquet all around. I for one could improve here.
|I have on occasion in times past been hotly (perhaps harshly
|so) sarcastic on some points I thought invalid. I think I
|could have made my sarcasms gentler and more humorous and thus
|more effective in debunking some hype.
|
|3. Keeping a free and un-moderated open forum like this takes
|a definite level of tolerance all around. Survive the bad to
|keep gleaning the good. And there is much good here.
|
|That said, then yes, let's move straight into production
|without further comment.
|
|I believe we had a great battle of ideas on the Need for Speed
|thread up through the middle of this week. Dick and Mark,
|both did a excellent job on competing ideas as well as the
|perspectives from many others. The two myths that I hope we
|have now debunked are:
|
|1. XML is somehow a silver bullet, and EDI is to disapear soon.
|
|
|
|At 04:50 PM 7/28/00 -0700, Brian Curtis wrote:
|>Or... Maybe not. In any case, I'm not going anywhere... You
|can't get rid of
|>me. So, lets move on people. This list is supposed to be
|productive... I
|>don't see production.
|
|Steve Bollinger 408-853-8478
|Cisco Systems B2B Service Logistics Pjt
|
|
|
|
|
|
|------ XML/edi Group Discussion List ------
|Homepage = http://www.XMLedi-Group.org
|
|Unsubscribe = send email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|Leave the subject and body of the message blank
|
|Questions/requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
|To receive only one message per day (digest format)
|send the following message to [EMAIL PROTECTED],
|(leave the subject line blank)
|
|digest xmledi-group your-email-address
|
|To join the XML/edi Group complete the form located at:
|http://www.xmledi-group.org/xmledigroup/mail1.htm
|
|
------ XML/edi Group Discussion List ------
Homepage =http://www.XMLedi-Group.org
Unsubscribe =send email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Leave the subject and body of the message blank
Questions/requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To receive only one message per day (digest format)
send the following message to [EMAIL PROTECTED],
(leave the subject line blank)
digest xmledi-group your-email-address
To join the XML/edi Group complete the form located at:
http://www.xmledi-group.org/xmledigroup/mail1.htm
------ XML/edi Group Discussion List ------
Homepage = http://www.XMLedi-Group.org
Unsubscribe = send email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Leave the subject and body of the message blank
Questions/requests: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To receive only one message per day (digest format)
send the following message to [EMAIL PROTECTED],
(leave the subject line blank)
digest xmledi-group your-email-address
To join the XML/edi Group complete the form located at:
http://www.xmledi-group.org/xmledigroup/mail1.htm
