"And by the way, I*m a marxist, not an anarchist". Without claiming to be a communist which am not because I believe the latter (communist) are those cdes who have reached the highest level of political conscious (which I have not reached) and their primary duty is to change the manner in which people think not to seek cheap popularity by attacking our leaders. Moreover, what characterizes these type of cdes is the ability to offer concrete analysis for any concrete situation without merely echoing what has been said by others and playing the "holier than thou game". Had it not been for the belief that I hold which is that this "car wars" must cease now, I would have requested you, as a self-proclaimed communist, to give concrete analysis as to why there is this focus on the GS as we approach the special Party Congress and why the same attack aimed at him was launched as we were approaching the 2007 PE Congress etc? I respect communist because of their power to transcend beyond emotions and give objective analysis hence hope you can give this analysis beyond the form that you are arrested in. As I admitted that am not yet a communist (given that am still learning) but I understand that attacking a leader of the revolution is tantamount to attacking the working class struggle. Even in a normal family, an attack to one family member amounts to an attack to the whole family and what the latter stands for. Don't you know this, learned communist. Without blackmailing you, but you sound like cope members who (at the time were ANC) myopically argued that the defense for JZ is isolated from the defense of the National Democratic Revolution. Infact you sound like Limpopo cope Chair Sello Moloto who once said JZ's legal problems can not be elevated to the national democratic revolution (emphasis mine). I wonder what was your position in relation to JZ's defense, if you agreed that his attack was a product of the 1996 class project aimed at managing capitalism etc., why now would defense for the SG not be the defense for the working class? don't you recognize the contradiction, that is if you supported jz and if you were prepared to sleep outside the courts and stand outside it for the whole day like some of us. I pause. Stop the '"car wars" Stop it. T.S. Zondi
>>> "claire ceruti" <[email protected]> 9/11/2009 9:11 AM >>> What you*re saying is that the working class should tailor its demands and expectations to accommodate the hypocrisy of the DA. The DA has no credibility in this matter and we should leave them out of it. It*s a pity that they got in first because really, we communists should have been much faster than them in raising this issue. I have made no cry for cheap government. Quite the contrary, I have called only for our representatives to live in and face the same conditions as the rest of this, knowing that this is a good way to speed up government spending on popular needs. And this idea of making accountability material is not my idea. Look at marx on the paris commune again, and read the state and revolution properly. It*s a sad and false piece of double-speak that equates a minister*s fancy car with defence of the working class revolution. The decidedly anti-revolutionary message is that we need expert elites to bring us socialism, whose expertise somehow deserves greater material reward. And by the way, I*m a marxist, not an anarchist. From:[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dominic Tweedie Sent: 11 September 2009 08:40 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Fwd: [COSATU Press] COSATU says No to ministers' expensive cars Rosa Luxemburg, responding in 1900 (in *Reform or Revolution*) to Eduard Bernstein*s 1899 book *Evolutionary Socialism*, wrote that Bernstein had done the world a favour, because not only had he for the first time openly made a virtue of class-collaborat ion, but he had also said everything that could possibly be said in its favour, which Luxemburg quickly disposed of. Subsequent history has proved Luxemburg correct about Bernstein, the prophet of reformism. In his *The State and Revolution*, in 1917, Lenin also took Bernstein*s renegade work as a reference point, but in addition remarked that the *opportunists* (that is the reformists; the class-collaborationists; the liberals) are the *twin brothers* of the *anarchists* (that is, the petty-bourgeois ultra-lefts). This, too has always proved to be the case, and is once again shown to be true in South Africa*s new liberal/anarchist *car wars* brouhaha. Long before Lenin and Luxemburg, Karl Marx had noted that every bourgeois is ready to take up the cry for cheap government, while at the same time wanting to use the state to the maximum for tenders and contracts, and caring nothing for the hypocrisy of shouting for both of these contradictory demands at the same time. That has not changed, either. All of this can be clearly seen in the *car wars* episode. Some of our reformists on this forum, and no doubt the reformists in COSATU, as well, think that having legitimised the DA*s liberal argument, and having thereby opened a Pandora*s box, they can seize upon the last remaining pestilence * hope * and thereby wish away the ills that they have unleashed. But they will not be able to wish these ills away. Instead, this monster is going to grow, and it will overshadow all their other efforts in the bourgeois public realm, including the COSATU Congress as a whole, unless they are exceedingly lucky. And why should the DA let them have that luck? Our resident anarchist, Claire Ceruti, is also caught in a pact with the liberal DA devil, in exactly way that Lenin predicted for all such anarchists. *Too much!* she scolds, echoing the DA. Now it only remains for the DA to press the button again, and Ceruti is forced to support them again. Sure enough, the very next day, the DA does just that, and the bourgeois media amplifies the cry. Now there are letters, op-eds, and Zapiro, and dozens of reporters are out looking for new ways to denounce government expenditure of all kinds. For our reformists and anarchists there is no controllable end to this, comrades. They have made a tacit pact with the devil and they must now go on a devil*s ride to hell. The right wing is not going to leave this alone. The end of the matter, as Rosa Luxemburg noted, is only one: revolution. Until then, there are two kinds of people in this political world. There are the falsely-moralising liberals and anarchists on the one side, and there are the communists on the other. As communists we are used to being told to apologise for existing. There has never been a time when we did not have this nonsense thrown at us. The people who have been most perceptive in this YCLSA discussion are Lucky Masuku and before him, Samson Zondi, who wrote: The Defense for the GS equals the Defense of the Working Class Struggle! That is correct, and it is vital that the defence of the working class struggle gets into gear now, and does not slacken again at any time between now and Christmas. May we be victorious again in Polokwane! Down with the opportunists and the anarchists! The struggle continues! VC LUCKY MASUKU wrote: Cadres You see, the manner in which some of us think leaves a lot to be desired, I honestly think that some of us are not either honest or objective when discussing this matter, in the first place you must really ask yourself as to how did this matter link into the media and beyond that wether the were any wrong doing by the department concern in purchasing the car. beforre you actually give names to our own senior leaders, for you information the minister does not buy any car rather the beaurocrats are the one responsible for that, and this is indeed done in line with the ministerial handbook, I think the department concern has clarified this issue as to the processes that unfolded. it must be noted that the department followed all the procedure in the of the PFMA in terms of ensuring that our communist leader is indeed safe, The recession did not at any stage thaught us that we must infact compromise the life of our leaders in the interest saving. the life of the state leaders in any countries are being put first hence they are provided with VIP security 24 hrs and their houses are also secured by VIP security, this is the responsibilty of every state in the world. it is strange that our own so called communist would have the problem when a department chooses to ensure that as per the guidelines of the ministerial handbook, its minister is provided with a safe and reliable car, that will ensure that he execute his duties without any technical problem from the vehicle, hence this cars are put a blue light. You see, the greatest enemy of the National Democratic Revolution is infact our own comrade, this comrade infact do not have any argument with regard to the car, infact they want to raise their own dissatisfaction of the SG being deployed by the ANC to the government and this are people who works day a night and try their best to destroy our own progressive cadres within the movement, The issue of the SG being deployed in governement its a Party issue and not for this forum, this cadres if they are members of the party and they have a problem with that, they must raise their dissatisfaction to their branches, rather try and deal with character assassination here, infact this cadres if they are indeed progressive cadres, they should have been discussing as to how best can we support the office of the SG in the COSATU House so as to ensure that the work of the party continues, for their iformation, that office has been thus far stregthen to merely deal with their concern. while we acknowledge that this is the constitutional matter but as communist, we would one day want to see the SACP leading the South African State, are we saying that when we reach that stage we must have two centred of powers, NO! i do not think so leaders, infact we were supposed to be proctecting the SG against this tendencies of the special type which has started again, because honestly that is not the SG car rather its a Government car. Amandla --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Mamphekgo,Steve (GPDPR) <[email protected]> ( mailto:[email protected] ) wrote: From: Mamphekgo,Steve (GPDPR) <[email protected]> ( mailto:[email protected] ) Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Fwd: [COSATU Press] COSATU says No to ministers' expensive cars To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 12:44 PM Mxo, u r correct mchana. I think our comrades (Cabinet Ministers) must lead by example. There is no excuse for our own trusted comrades to fall into the bourgeoisie tendencies of fancy cars and lavish lifestyles, whilst our people are trapped in abject poverty. Comrades must just swallow their pride and take those cars back. COSATU is correct, whether the DA shares the same views or not, by making a public call for the return of the fancy cars. Comrades shouldn't have, in the first place, behaved in an unbecoming manner that will have most of our people sharing the same views with the reactionaries elements such as the DA. But we just can't condone these actions on the basis that we are afraid of finding ourselves sharing the same views with the DA. We know for the fact that ours, as progressive revolutionaries, is a principled matter we are raising, whilst the opposition is just being opportunistic as usual. But I blame our comrades for having allowed the DA and other reactionary forces space to make noise. Let them take back those cars, finish and klaar. We are not going to be black-mailed into defending the wrongs just because they were committed by our own comrades. As communists we are fighting against societal inequalities, we are fighting for a just world and ensuring that everybody meets his/her basic needs, not luxuries. Let the ministers also do with what is basic to necessitate them to execute their responsibilities. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] ( http://us.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yclsa-eom-fo...@googlegroupscom ) [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mxolisi Mlatha Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:08 AM To: [email protected] ( http://us.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yclsa-eom-fo...@googlegroupscom ) Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Fwd: [COSATU Press] COSATU says No to ministers' expensive cars Comrades The issue of cars has now become such a big public issue for Ministers. One cannot phathom the indiscretion on the part of some of our comrades who continue to order expensive cars. Let our comrades be brave and return the cars, we need to encourage modest expenditure. Mxolisi --- Sent from UnionMail Service [http://mail.union.org.za] Disclaimer: This message may contain confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. 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