*Things which matter most should never be at the mercy of things which matter least!*
Once again, my apologies cdes. I am learning this context very slowly - I will go for more extra lessons on English. Also be careful of the meaning of your phrases!! *" how can equal status be demonstrated so that those who have been assigned less status historically will then experience equal status?"* On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]>wrote: > I never said you had lost hope, comrade. You don't have to do that - put > words in other peoples mouths that they did not say, I mean. > I said that you were still hoping for a revolutionary bus to come along. In > fact, I said that hope was all that you had. > > The National Democratic Revolution that was initiated by Great Lenin is > something to respect. I don't know if you are counter-revolutionary, Mpho, > (although you keep saying that you are) but I do know that you are loose and > careless. > > I have spent a lot of time studying the meaning of the NDR lately. You can > share the fruits of that study if you wish at: > > * > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum/web/national-democratic-revolution-console > * > > Please don't burden us with your angst, comrade. For your information, the > cure for it is action. > Brendan, you said yourself that you were "confused about" "a > press statement [that was] was released saying the ANC COSATU and SACP were > for the banning of Brokers, if the ANC was then why hasn't this reflected > in policy? wwho was responsible for this shift in policy? and should they be > named and shamed if no publically then at least whitin the organisation?" > > You are confused, indeed. You are not able to sort out the difference > between thought, communication, and action, and you wave the word "policy" > around like a magician's silk handkerchief, revealing or hiding now one > thing, now another. What is this word "policy" supposed to mean, exactly? > What has it got to do with material, revolutionary politics? > > In my experience, where you find the word policy, you do find confusion. In > my experience you can write everything you need to write about politics > without using the word "policy". But if you then stick that word in, it is > going to create confusion all over again. Use it at you peril. Better still, > avoid it. > > > VC > > > > > > 2009/10/8 Mpho Lebese <[email protected]> > > >> *Things which matter most should never be at the mercy of things which >> matter least!* >> >> Well said Cde VC - I read a piece of work by some comerade that I think I >> should share a bit of it in response to your answer to the comments >> contributed. I must admit that I am a bit shocked but equally glad that you >> have answered exactly as the comments were presented. >> >> You have indicated that I have lost hope on the fight, well I have not nor >> even intend to loose it, I just need people like you to help bring back my >> hope. Maybe I might have sounded contradictory, I believe that somewhere in >> my statement I mentioned that maybe the SACP will someday confront >> capitalism - to me that's hope. You see, freedom of expression emerges where >> people, in freedom, develop love for ideas, objects of convenience, and >> intermingling with people of different backgrounds, and sharing different >> opinions. But in this case it seems as if if you have different opinion, you >> are being perceived as counterrevolutionary. Chauvinism on the other hand is >> the attitude of imposing your own understanding of things on others. >> >> People or workers end up resorting to strikes not according to to a >> programmed historical perspectives, but according to the demands of their >> own social reality. I maintain that the leadership of the people, i.e. ANC >> and its allaince partners, are a betrayal to the masses. Take the NDR for >> example, it is a Stalinist approach to the hardships facing the masses. the >> pigs are getting fatter, in Orwell's language. Give them complete control of >> our lives in exchange for perpetual empty rhetoric of the NDR or whatever >> empty slogan they will think of tomorrow. O' s*^%$# t, I almost forgot - I >> just sounded counter revolutionary, my apologies. But what I know is that >> the NDR has been tested by different countries from as far back as three >> centuries ago, it is plainly bourgeois' reform policies. >> >> Employing such policies, shall we be able to make use of the correctness >> of our Social-Democratic doctrine, of our bond with the only thoroughly >> revolutionary class, the ploretariat, to put a proletarian imprint on the >> revolution, to carry the revolution to a real decisive victory, a victory >> borne out of a process of bottom up deliberation and debate in which voices >> from below shape outcomes - and not a top to bottom approach? (my apologies, >> I am being counterrevolutionary again). Of course if one point these things >> out 'you crucify the liberation under the banner of freedom of opinion. To >> be a revolutionary you must keep quite even when the country rots away in a >> funeral pace. >> >> *I WILL NOT LOOSE HOPE* >> >> ML >> >> >> *" how can equal status be demonstrated so that those who have been >> assigned less status historically will then experience equal status?"* >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Dominic Tweedie < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Comrades, >>> >>> A word of explanation and a little bit of opinion, if I may: >>> >>> First of all, for the record, Shaheed Mahomed did not post his diatribe >>> on this forum. I did. I forwarded it to this forum, with a note asking for >>> comments. >>> >>> I got it because Shaheed Mahomed has put my address on his press-release >>> list. So his message actually went to the media. I wanted to show you all >>> what he is doing, and to see what your responses would look like. >>> >>> Thanks for the comments, comrades. >>> >>> In my opinion, we all need to jack up our understanding and our responses >>> to things like this. >>> >>> The reason is because in my experience, when struggle gets sharper, so >>> also does it become easier for people like Shaheed Mahomed, and also the >>> right-wing reformists that we nowadays call Social Democrats (e.g. Cope and >>> DA), to make up their propaganda and to catch the attention of the press. >>> Hence I think it is likely that we will get a lot more of this kind of >>> thing, as well as the DA-generated sniping that we see. >>> >>> Lenin, in “*The State and >>> Revolution<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum/web/the-state-and-revolution-console> >>> *” called these two the “anarchists” and the "opportunists”, and he said >>> that they are “twins”. >>> >>> In the history of communist thought, the struggle with the anarchist >>> “left” and the opportunist right has served to bring out some of the best >>> and clearest literature. One example of this is Marx’s 1847 polemic against >>> the anarchist Proudhon, which Lenin, again in “The State and Revolution”, >>> calls “the first mature work of Marxism”. >>> >>> There are many other examples. >>> >>> Looking at the responses here, today, one thing that is remarkable is >>> that Mpho, from outside the SACP, and Brendan, from inside, both think that >>> if the ANC COSATU and SACP decide something, they can just enact it. Like, >>> if they decide they want socialism, they can just declare it. Shaheed >>> Mahomed thinks so, too, and takes the next logical step to say that the ANC >>> COSATU and SACP must be traitors because they do not enact everything that >>> they want. >>> >>> Mpho, Brendan and Shaheed all think that the struggle is over but that >>> something is holding things up, at leadership level. They all share the same >>> focus on leadership and have all forgotten the masses, their condition and >>> the necessity for mass struggle to make change. Therefore Mpho, for example, >>> has given up the struggle altogether and is just waiting at the >>> revolutionary bus-stop, until a revolutionary bus comes along to take him >>> where he wants to go. >>> >>> Cde Trevor, on the other hand, thinks it is o.k. to ignore the >>> anarchists. Marx and Lenin did not think so. >>> >>> In my opinion we all need to sharpen up our critique and in effect, to >>> take advantage of the Shaheeds of this world so that we get some practice >>> in; not forgetting the right wing opportunists as well. As the struggle >>> sharpens, there will be many more of these. >>> >>> In struggle, >>> >>> VC >>> >>> >>> >>> Trevor wrote: >>> >>> Comrades, >>> >>> It is a complete waste of energy and a distraction to respond to every >>> criticism by Workers International, just as it is to respond to every >>> criticism by the DA. We have a much greater task to accomplish and that is >>> to plot the road to Socialism and ultimately Communism. Let us not be >>> distracted by these petty arguments. >>> >>> The important task right now is to fight Capital and demand the abolition of >>> Labour Brokers and the casualisation of Labour, and use every tool available >>> to us to achieve this objective. >>> >>> I just find that we waste too much energy debating and responding to petty >>> arguments instead of saying focused on the task at hand. >>> >>> >>> Kind Regards, >>> >>> Trevor Joseph >>> Mobile: +27 82 946 3877 >>> Fax: +27 86 606 2130 >>> Email: [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected] >>> <[email protected]>] On Behalf Of BrendanLee >>> Sent: 08 October 2009 09:08 AM >>> To: YCLSA Discussion Forum >>> Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Fwd: How the SACP betrayed the struggle >>> against labour brokers and casualisation of labour- 7.10.09 >>> >>> >>> im quite confused by the Stalinist bit, for an organisation thats >>> intent on attacking the alliance, they are not very good at applying >>> even reasonable arguments. >>> >>> what i am a bit confused about by the whole debate is that a press >>> statement was released saying the ANC COSATU and SACP were for the >>> banning of Brokers, if the ANC was then why hasn't this reflected in >>> policy? wwho was responsible for this shift in policy? and should they >>> be named and shamed if no publically then at least whitin the >>> organisation? >>> >>> On Oct 8, 8:10 am, sabelo gina <[email protected]> >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Comrades, >>> >>> I was in the Portfolio Committee in Cape Town when we made the submissions >>> to the Committee, I did not see a submission from Workers International. I >>> was in Germiston Civic Centre last night, I did not hear a submission >>> >>> >>> from >>> >>> >>> Worker's International and now for Shaheed Mohamed to wtrite in this >>> >>> >>> forum, >>> >>> >>> opportunistically so, and accuse the SACP for no apparent reason is >>> hypocrisy and it must be tolerated. WE debate in this forum and she is not >>> raising a debate but continue with their old campaign of vilifying the >>> Communist Party. >>> >>> A question that I would like to ask her, are they happy that they >>> >>> >>> encouraged >>> >>> >>> workers to spoil the votes in the Western Cape and contributed to the >>> blunders of some people in the ANC Western Cape to deliver the province to >>> DA? >>> >>> Who is the enemy of the working class, is it the SACP or the DA that they >>> helped to install in the Western Cape through their campaign of >>> >>> >>> encouraging >>> >>> >>> workers to spoil the votes. I am told even in the ILRIG Globalisation >>> School, instead of discussing opportunities that are brought by the crisis >>> of capitalism, they spent inordinate amount of time vilifying Cosatu and >>> >>> >>> the >>> >>> >>> SACP... what are their intentions about the unity of the working class. >>> >>> I pause, >>> >>> Cedric Gina >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Dominic Tweedie<[email protected]> >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Comments, anyone?* >>> * >>> * >>> *VC* >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Shaheed Mahomed <[email protected]> >>> <[email protected]> >>> Date: 2009/10/7 >>> Subject: How the SACP betrayed the struggle against labour brokers and >>> casualisation of labour- 7.10.09 >>> To: news <[email protected]> <[email protected]> >>> >>> When the SACP 'discovered' that labour brokers were a problem and that >>> >>> >>> it >>> >>> >>> was necessary to have a campaign against them, the way the campaign was >>> posed was deliberately to act militant for the sake of the Cosatu >>> >>> >>> Congress, >>> >>> >>> while at the same time to divert the anger of the working class from >>> monopoly capital and its attacks on workers. When the campaign was >>> >>> >>> adopted >>> >>> >>> at the Cosatu Congress a day of 'action' was proposed (7 Oct 2009)- >>> lunchtime pickets at some hearings and in some industrial areas. >>> >>> >>> Without the permission of monopoly capital, labour brokers would not >>> >>> >>> exist; >>> >>> >>> thus what was really necessary was a general strike to force monopoly >>> capital to end these slavery conditions. This was avoided and faith was >>> placed in the leadership of the alliance, the amabhulu omnyama of the >>> >>> >>> ANC to >>> >>> >>> legislate an end to labour broking. let's not hold our breathe to wait >>> >>> >>> for >>> >>> >>> the ANC to enforce this minimal democratic demand but let us draw the >>> >>> >>> lesson >>> >>> >>> of the counter-revolutionary role of the SACP and Cosatu leadership, who >>> >>> >>> in >>> >>> >>> the face of the world capitalist attack are now the vanguard of >>> >>> >>> imperialism >>> >>> >>> in the ranks of the working class. We cannot place a programme against >>> stalinism in the hands of the stalinists themselves. >>> >>> >>> Forward to a general strike for an emergency workers plan, calling for >>> >>> >>> the >>> >>> >>> expropriation of the banks, mines, food, clothing, transport, energy >>> >>> >>> sector, >>> >>> >>> construction, health sectors, without compensation and for them to be >>> >>> >>> placed >>> >>> >>> under workers control. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Shaheed Mahomed >>> Secretary >>> Workers International Vanguard League >>> 1st Floor, Community House >>> 41 Salt River rd >>> Salt River >>> South Africa >>> 7925 >>> ph 0822020617 >>> fax [email protected] >>> webwww.workersinternational.org.za- Hide quoted text - >>> >>> >>> - Show quoted text - >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > -- > Blog at: http://domza.blogspot.com/ > Communist University web site at: http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > Subscribe for free e-mail updates at: > http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/ > Library of documents (CU "CD") at: http://cu.domza.net/ > [email protected] > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You are subscribed. 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