Yes comrades mine is to say I do understand how revolutionary the GS is and why maybe the movement deplyed him on that strategic position. He will as in fact doing so address the in balance between the students from the poor background and those from the rich but however comrades when we talk of a state and its government we should be consiouse enough in the matter of knowing and understanding what class does it serve as a state. So it is a known factor that South Africa is a capitalist state and so will be the government,comrades we may deploy as many as possible communist on cabinet but if as a party we cannot address and transform the system that made our country be a capitalist state then it doesn't matter who and where but what matters most to my understanding are strategies to fight capitalism and take it to the grave where it belongs then after these issues of duties and responsibilities of GS may follow. Comrades the reality of the situation here is that conflict of interest may at any given time arise to him as a minister of the government who operates on the capitalist state and that may lead to the point where he will have to side with an enemy. So for me I think we should then ask him to step down as GS sober as I am but make it clear to him on that congress that his mandate of which he is perfoming it very well of transforming education and training towards working class must keep on that,then any capable comrade who will then be replacing him and other cc members lead the agenda of transforming the systerm in this country. Manditshaye
________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thembela Gazi Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:31 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Blade 'safe from drunk dreamers', Buti Manamela, Times Comrades, Long before the new Administration took office, I expressed concern post Polokwane around the availability of the Party leadership that we elected in PE at the 12th National Congress. This concern was born from the fact that the GS was in the NEC & NWC of the ANC; National Chairperson was now the Secretary General of our Movement - with all the responsibilities associated with such a deployment; the then National Deputy Chair late Cde Ncumisa Kondlo (may her soul rest in peace) was in the NEC & NWC); and now the National Treasurer is in the NEC, an MEC and now is the Provincial Chairperson of the ANC in the Eastern Cape; the Deputy General Secretary is now the Deputy Transport Minister. Several CC members are cabinet ministers. These are all demanding fulltime positions and as an aspiring communist I am proud of the role played by communists within the ANC in their own right as members of the ANC. These deployments point to the kind of leadership provided by Communists in our Movement and the general ANC membership realises this. The current debate is sparked by the role of the GS within the current Administration as Minister responsible for Higher Education and Training a critical role for the development of the country, a key priority in the ANC Manifesto. Cde Blade the revolutionary, an educationsist I am sure the President could not have made a better choice into his Cabinet for this critical portfolio. Having said all that we should not close a debate on the implications of these progressive deployments on the political and organisational state of the SACP as an independant organisation within the Tripartite Alliance. And when engaging in such a debate let us also not be prisoners of our Constitution. In as much as I agree that the Special National Congress is not an elective gathering - I am sure that it will discuss issues related to the Post Polokwane scenario and how those are impacting on our Party. Masijule ngengxoxo, Thembela. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> wrote: Cde Clarence, You are trying to tell us that the only reason you want to have a debate about the words "full time" at the Special National Congress is just so that you can reaffirm your support for Cde Blade? In England they would say "Pull the other one, it's got bells on." Maybe Ian Beddowes can explain that for you. I suspect that if you go around telling people in South Africa that you want to debate the meaning of "full time" just so as to show your loyalty to Blade Nzimande, then you are going to make some people laugh, but if you push your luck too far, some of them might get quite annoyed with you. I think you should keep your dreams to yourself in this case. Yours in struggle, Domza. On 09/11/2009, Kanego, Clarence Thete <[email protected]> wrote: > VC > > In am seriously disaapointed in you Domza. The questions which are asked by > Comrade Mdu are as innocent as they expose the technicality of what we > assertion as the YCLSA and others including yourself that Cde Blade Nzimande > should and will continue as the GS of the SACP. Cde Domza it does not > require any deep understanding of the Polemics or Classics of Marx to > understand that the Constitution says that the postion of the GS is a full > time. The question that follows then will be what are the limitations or > implications of this position being fulltime whereas its occupant holds > another postion that is full time as well? Cde Domza, I have never seen any > of your writtings become so shallow as what you have gave as responses. What > makes matters worse is that all what you have said is that the debate should > not exist in the first place and I do not agree. We have been the frontiers > of struggle against anyone who suppresses debates in the movement we should > act like one! > > Comrades, why don't we find out as to what happened to the People's Republic > of Cuba when Cde Fidel was President and General Secretary of the Communist > Party of Cuba? How does the Communist Party of China handles this matter? My > take is that we are not waging a constitutional struggle here, we are waging > a class struggle. So the constitutionality of the matter can be handled. Our > struggle for power of the state resonates well with our GS being a minister > in the state. That is the angle I bring on this debate. > Lets debate! > On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Dominic Tweedie > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Cde Mduduzi, >> >> I think that what you are indulging in is what is called sophistry. I can >> happily use that word because I am sure when you were taught how to debate >> you would have been taught what sophistry is. >> >> I think that this sophistry of going to Turfloop to discover what is the >> meaning of "full time" has been exposed. That is never going to be the >> agenda of the Special National Congress. >> >> You are trying to catch Dr Blade with a hook made of rubber. >> >> You will not succeed. >> >> Yours in struggle, >> >> Domza, >> >> VC >> >> >> >> >> >> 2009/11/9 Mduduzi H Vilakazi <[email protected]> >> >> Cde Lebese, >>> >>> I was taught how to debate and have deliberately shy away from mentioning >>> time because I understood what it meant. None of my posting has time, so >>> please chief, do not debate from the premise of your too forward mind. >>> >>> If anyone can be able to let me know what fulltime mean as enshrined (not >>> in any constitution but) in the constitution of the SACP. I still remain >>> that the debate to me is not on changing the GS. It is rather on our >>> understanding of fulltime. >>> >>> So, if your wondering mind provides you with wrong interpretation of my >>> posting, then do not attribute such statements or paranoia to me. I >>> remain >>> with the belief that should comrade blade be multi tasking and not be >>> fulltime as an official then he is unconstitutionally occupying that >>> office. >>> >>> I therefore request anyone who can interpret the constitution different >>> from my interpretation to provide such. I will not change my views on >>> peoples love for labelling. I have undergone many frustrating moments and >>> I >>> am able to stand my ground until convinced otherwise. Why dont comrades >>> learn to debate issues not persons. >>> >>> As it stands, the constitution should be amended or comrade Blade be >>> replaced. We should not be so irrational by ignoring the meaning of >>> constitutional implications in this regard. >>> >>> I remain. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "Lebese OE" <[email protected]> 09/11/2009 15:55 >>> >>> >>> Cdes, >>> >>> Let us try to remind cde Mdu that; >>> >>> 1. The GS is not an employee of some company that has its office >>> hours from 8 - 4. For your benefit the extract says: *The General >>> Secretary shall be the leading National Office Bearer of the SACP and a* >>> *full-time official* *under conditions of service determined by the CC**. >>> The General Secretary shall be an ex officio member of all party >>> structures **(Now this does not say 8 - 4 to me and am sure to you too)** >>> .* >>> >>> 2. From time to time we will need to make decisions based on >>> conditions at any given time. We need not read our Constitution as if we >>> are >>> lawyers and it is some kind of Legislation. >>> >>> 3. The constitution is not meant to block and delay us in achieving >>> our strategic objectives. >>> >>> 4. We are a party that has a huge responsibility of pushing the >>> agenda of the working class and doing '*everything in >>> achieving'*socialism in our lifetime. >>> >>> 5. This is the same leadership that played an important part in >>> literally forcing the wheels on the movement back in the right track. >>> >>> 6. Changing leadership of the Movement was just but one of the many >>> things that we needed to do and there is still a lot to be done so nobody >>> is >>> going to disturb our momentum. >>> >>> Our National leadership of YCL was spot on when it said through our >>> National Secretary that the GS is going nowhere. >>> >>> We will defend and support our leadership and will not be apologetic for >>> doing so. >>> >>> Oagile >>> >>> Volkswagen of South Africa (Pty) Ltd. (Reg No. 1946/023458/07) Chairman: Dr J Heizmann* Managing Director: D Powels Directors: M Glendinning (Sales & Marketing), S Mund* (Finance), S Macozoma, PJ Smith (Human Resources), N Maliza (Corporate and Government Affairs), T du Plessis (Production) German* DISCLAIMER : Volkswagen of South Africa (Pty) Ltd Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. 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