VC In am seriously disaapointed in you Domza. The questions which are asked by Comrade Mdu are as innocent as they expose the technicality of what we assertion as the YCLSA and others including yourself that Cde Blade Nzimande should and will continue as the GS of the SACP. Cde Domza it does not require any deep understanding of the Polemics or Classics of Marx to understand that the Constitution says that the postion of the GS is a full time. The question that follows then will be what are the limitations or implications of this position being fulltime whereas its occupant holds another postion that is full time as well? Cde Domza, I have never seen any of your writtings become so shallow as what you have gave as responses. What makes matters worse is that all what you have said is that the debate should not exist in the first place and I do not agree. We have been the frontiers of struggle against anyone who suppresses debates in the movement we should act like one!
Comrades, why don't we find out as to what happened to the People's Republic of Cuba when Cde Fidel was President and General Secretary of the Communist Party of Cuba? How does the Communist Party of China handles this matter? My take is that we are not waging a constitutional struggle here, we are waging a class struggle. So the constitutionality of the matter can be handled. Our struggle for power of the state resonates well with our GS being a minister in the state. That is the angle I bring on this debate. Lets debate! On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]>wrote: > Cde Mduduzi, > > I think that what you are indulging in is what is called sophistry. I can > happily use that word because I am sure when you were taught how to debate > you would have been taught what sophistry is. > > I think that this sophistry of going to Turfloop to discover what is the > meaning of "full time" has been exposed. That is never going to be the > agenda of the Special National Congress. > > You are trying to catch Dr Blade with a hook made of rubber. > > You will not succeed. > > Yours in struggle, > > Domza, > > VC > > > > > > 2009/11/9 Mduduzi H Vilakazi <[email protected]> > > Cde Lebese, >> >> I was taught how to debate and have deliberately shy away from mentioning >> time because I understood what it meant. None of my posting has time, so >> please chief, do not debate from the premise of your too forward mind. >> >> If anyone can be able to let me know what fulltime mean as enshrined (not >> in any constitution but) in the constitution of the SACP. I still remain >> that the debate to me is not on changing the GS. It is rather on our >> understanding of fulltime. >> >> So, if your wondering mind provides you with wrong interpretation of my >> posting, then do not attribute such statements or paranoia to me. I remain >> with the belief that should comrade blade be multi tasking and not be >> fulltime as an official then he is unconstitutionally occupying that office. >> >> I therefore request anyone who can interpret the constitution different >> from my interpretation to provide such. I will not change my views on >> peoples love for labelling. I have undergone many frustrating moments and I >> am able to stand my ground until convinced otherwise. Why dont comrades >> learn to debate issues not persons. >> >> As it stands, the constitution should be amended or comrade Blade be >> replaced. We should not be so irrational by ignoring the meaning of >> constitutional implications in this regard. >> >> I remain. >> >> >> >> >>> "Lebese OE" <[email protected]> 09/11/2009 15:55 >>> >> >> Cdes, >> >> Let us try to remind cde Mdu that; >> >> 1. The GS is not an employee of some company that has its office >> hours from 8 – 4. For your benefit the extract says: *The General >> Secretary shall be the leading National Office Bearer of the SACP and a* >> *full-time official* *under conditions of service determined by the CC**. >> The General Secretary shall be an ex officio member of all party >> structures **(Now this does not say 8 – 4 to me and am sure to you too)** >> .* >> >> 2. From time to time we will need to make decisions based on >> conditions at any given time. We need not read our Constitution as if we are >> lawyers and it is some kind of Legislation. >> >> 3. The constitution is not meant to block and delay us in achieving >> our strategic objectives. >> >> 4. We are a party that has a huge responsibility of pushing the >> agenda of the working class and doing ‘*everything in achieving’*socialism >> in our lifetime. >> >> 5. This is the same leadership that played an important part in >> literally forcing the wheels on the movement back in the right track. >> >> 6. Changing leadership of the Movement was just but one of the many >> things that we needed to do and there is still a lot to be done so nobody is >> going to disturb our momentum. >> >> Our National leadership of YCL was spot on when it said through our >> National Secretary that the GS is going nowhere. >> >> We will defend and support our leadership and will not be apologetic for >> doing so. >> >> Oagile >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Mduduzi H Vilakazi >> *Sent:* 09 November 2009 12:06 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* [YCLSA Discussion] Blade 'safe from drunk dreamers', Buti >> Manamela, Times >> >> >> >> *Cdes,* >> >> >> >> *I do not know Cde Malgas what you mean but Cde Adriano raised a debate >> on the constitutionality part. If the extracts he made are from an original >> copy of the constitution of the SACP then the debate should be whether the >> constitution is changed or the incumbent is changed.* >> >> >> >> *The extract read as follows:* >> >> *11. DUTIES OF THE GENERAL SECRETARY* >> >> *The General Secretary shall be the leading National Office Bearer of the >> SACP and a full-time official under conditions of service determined by the >> CC. The General Secretary shall be an ex officio member of all party >> structures and shall:* >> >> *11.1 Keep (or cause to be kept) the minutes of all CC and PB meetings >> and such other books, records and archives as may be required.* >> >> *11.2 Attend to the correspondence of the CC and PB.* >> >> *11.3 Maintain regular personal and written contact with all the >> provinces and keep the membership informed of the work of the CC and PB.* >> >> *11.4 Ensure that members of the CC are kept informed of the work of the >> PB in between meetings of the CC.* >> >> *11.5 Draw up (or cause to be drawn up) all reports and documents as may >> be decided upon by the CC or PB.* >> >> *11.6 The Deputy General Secretary shall, as directed by the CC, deputise >> for the General Secretary in respect of all the functions set out above.* >> >> *The importance of this constitution will be meaningless if the status >> qou remains because the office bearer will be part-time while the >> constitution warrants him to be full time. I do not think we should debate >> the issue with the view of seating/ un-seating a comrade.* >> >> *We all love Cde Blade. He took this office knowing that he should be >> full-time. General Secretary is an important office. Surely, SACP has many >> tried and tested comrades, if the constitution remains unchanged, then >> someone should (in line with the constitution) replace Cde Blade.* >> >> *So, my take is that the constitution should be amended or a new GS be >> elected at conference (if no constitutional amendment is envisaged). It is >> not about whether one is good in multi-tasking or not. It is about the >> constitutional obligations of the organization we so dearly love.* >> >> *I pause!* >> >> >> >> This message and any attachments relating to official business of the >> Mpumalanga >> Provincial Government (MPG) is proprietary to the MPG and intended for >> the original addressee only. 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The MPG is not >> liable whatsoever for loss or damage resulting from the opening of this >> message and / or attachments and / or the use of the information contained >> in this message and / or attachments. >> >> [image: Always stretching our arm, to accelerate service >> delivery]<http://www.mpumalanga.gov.za/> >> >> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> This e-mail is subjected to the disclaimer that can be viewed at: >> http://www.fdc.co.za/disclaimer/ >> >> Email Managed by MailXServer - http://www.mailxserver.com >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> This message and any attachments relating to official business of the >> Mpumalanga >> Provincial Government (MPG) is proprietary to the MPG and intended for >> the original addressee only. The message may contain information that is >> confidential and subject to legal privilege. Any views expressed in this >> message are those of the individual sender. 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The MPG is not >> liable whatsoever for loss or damage resulting from the opening of this >> message and / or attachments and / or the use of the information contained >> in this message and / or attachments. >> >> [image: Always stretching our arm, to accelerate service delivery] >> <http://www.mpumalanga.gov.za/> >> >> >> > > > -- > Blog at: http://domza.blogspot.com/ > Communist University web site at: http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > Subscribe for free e-mail updates at: > http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/ > Library of documents (CU "CD") at: http://cu.domza.net/ > [email protected] > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . 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