We don't deal in gossips here. To say that tribalism is a national gossip therefore it is legitimate is not acceptable.
This discussion had better stop now. VC On 13 April 2011 19:22, <[email protected]> wrote: > Comrades, > > As correctly spelt out by Skizo on my rights. I am compelled by my > unresting mind to make a contribution. > > Firstly, there is a smoke in the ministry of cooperative governance and > some quotations which I suspect are statements made to the media around this > matter. However, the issue remains a heresy until government conducts its > investigation so as to bring sanity to the matter at hand. > > However, it is correct to say, should there be an authenticity to the > allegations, the Presidency should act decisively in rooting out corruption. > In Mpumalanga, an MEC was redeployed to the legislature after sending a > security guard to go fetch shoes as far as 300km away using state resources > (car, money and the time of the employee) for personal glory. > > Personal aggrandisement and greed are central elements of capitalism or > capitalist tendencies at the expense of taxpayers resources. The suggestion > of the outcome or verdict should the issue be found true is not out of hand. > One of the apex priorities of the ANC in government is to out-root > corruption. Redeployment or rather call it firing of the minister should the > allegations be confirmed is the most important indication of the seriousness > of the ANC in corruption matters. > > Definitely, the President does not have powers to expel members of > parliament but reserves the authority enshrined in the constitution to > invite and disinvite cabinet members. Surely, based on this prerogative, it > is correct for COSATU and other sane citizens to suggest a harsh verdict > after the investigations found the minister to be on the wrong. This is > informed by the knowledge that such actions will be within the confines of > the constitution. > > On the matter of Zulunification, I stand by Skizo but not on the related > examples he made but on the perception within ANC branches dominated by > other ethnic groups. It is not wrong for Skizo to openly engage on the > matter because honestly it is a national gossip. It came out on appointments > that the security cluster was Zululised. It also came out that the Zulus > dominate cabinet. It also came out that the shuffling of cabinet did not > affect Zulus. > > Why do we want to behave as if the tribal card is not part of our daily > gossips and perception. This is even rife now in the leadership debates > towards Mangaung. The leadership is debated on which tribe should preside > now. I agree that the ANC declared regionalism and tribalism as an enemy of > the movement but it still exist among us. Equally, the same tribal card was > used as part of the campaign to have Zuma as President. T-Shirts were > written in bold 100% Zulu boy. > > It is very interesting when comrades say we are beyond this tribal > discussion. Racism includes among others tribal discrimination, regionalism, > cultural and religious discrimination, colour bar etc. Do we really believe > that racism is not part of our daily lives. As a principle, racism is wrong > but we still pronounce racist statements everyday hence the tribal card has > not left our small heads. Until we face the truth, we will live with this > regional and tribal conflicts forever.... > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 14:41:30 > To: <[email protected]> > Reply-To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Why Shiceka should STAY ON - at least for > now > > U correct my leader I think our intelligent state agency are opposition > party's agency's n also news papers > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Setja Diphoko" <[email protected]> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 14:30:40 > To: <[email protected]>; CU< > [email protected]> > Reply-To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Why Shiceka should STAY ON - at least for > now > > Comrades, > > We can cut and paste various quotes by intellectuals and scholars. If > Comrade Minister is found to have engaged in any wrong doing, corrective > action must be taken. It doesn't matter what tribe he comes from, we don't > talk tribalism these days! > > The way allegations are popping left, right and center-one can make a > qualified opinion that intelligence state agencies are used in order to > source such information as this goes beyond the scope of investigative > journalism, but nevertheless WRONG is WRONG and it should be corrected! > > Comradely yours > > > Lesetja Diphoko > "Sent via my > BlackBerry" > > -----Original Message----- > From: City Bokaba <[email protected]> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 06:52:13 > To: <[email protected]> > Reply-To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Why Shiceka should STAY ON - at least for > now > > Cde Skizo, > I stand to agree with the notion that says the allegations reported on > newspapers about cde Shiceka should be invistigated and if there is truth > around that necessary steps should be taken , but on Zulunisation of the > society is our own opinion & you are protected by the constitution whether > there is truth in there i don't know. > > On Wed Apr 13th, 2011 9:12 AM EDT Skizo Skizo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Why Shiceka should STAY ON - at least for now > > > >Comrades, friends > > > >Since I was born I have always taken the liberty to air my views on any > matter as I deem appropriate, using any appropriate platform at my disposal, > whenever an opportunity presents itself. My views are not intended to cause > harm to or praise anybody. At all material times I endeavour to be above > board and stick to matters of principle. > > > >Some of the issues I raise may be considered sensitive. But I, like any > other South African, have the right to formulate an opinion on any matter, > in accordance with the dictates of our Constitution. The Constitution is the > cornerstone of our democracy and guarantor of freedom. In Section 15(1) it > guarantees all of us, South Africans, the right to freedom of conscience, > religion, thought, belief and opinion. Section 16(1) guarantees us the right > to freedom of expression, which includes freedom to receive or impart > information or ideas. These rights are, however, subject to the Limitation > Clause of the Constitution – which is section 16(2). > > I therefore wish to encourage anybody interested in debates to engage > calmly and focus solely on substance and avoid resorting to emotive > language. As the Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu’s correctly said during > the 2004 Nelson Mandela Lecture, “We should not impugn the motives of others > but accept the bona fides of all. If we believe in something, then surely we > will be ready to defend it rationally, hoping to persuade those opposed to > change their point of view... We should not be browbeaten by pontificating > decrees from on high. It should be possible to talk as adults about issues > without engaging in slanging matches." > >Comrades, friends and colleagues > >A few days ago, our faces froze at the loud newspaper headlines about > Minister Sicelo Shiceka’s alleged corrupt activities. Since then there have > been calls for government to investigate claims that Minister Shiceka > improperly used state money to gallivant the world. These calls should be > welcome. But those calls for the President to simply fire him are > politically preposterous and should be rejected with the contempt they > deserve. No minister should be fired on the basis of newspaper headlines. > After all, Honourable Shiceka is not the only minister to make headlines for > wrong reasons. We have plenty of such ministers; the list is long. The > Honourable Shiceka is innocent until proven otherwise by a competent > authority – be it the Office of the Public Protector or a court of law. Any > suggestion to the contrary would not hold water, save for pure political > ends. > > > >As you would recall, not too long ago the National Police Commissioner was > reported in the media to have improperly influenced the signing of a lease > agreement for new police headquarters. Despite voluminous calls for him to > be fired, he stayed on. Instead, and correctly so, an investigation was > initiated and findings thereof were presented to Cabinet – at least this > information is in the public domain already; I therefore cannot be accused > of illegally disseminating classified information. > > > >Again, not too long ago, the wife of our Intelligence Minister was > arrested on charges of drug dealing and smuggling. Some quarters of our > society called for the Minister’s head, but he has stayed on to this day. > > > >The current president, before his ascendancy to the highest office in the > land, was a regular visitor to courts on allegations of corruption. Some > within our society complained so vociferously that he was unfairly charged > and prosecuted through the court of public opinion in order to serve narrow > political ends of some factions within the ruling party. As we all know, the > case was dropped by the NPA because it had been ‘so politically > contaminated’ that continuing with prosecution would not serve the interests > of justice. > > > >Given this set of precedence, it would not only be politically > counter-intuitive but also procedurally and morally reprehensible to simply > fire Honourable Shiceka. Those who aver that he is corrupt must prove and > let the competent authorities to be the final arbiter. If the allegations > are found to be true, then the Honourable Minister must face the > consequences. As the ANC (of which I have been a member for at least 13 > years) said following its NEC lekgotla earlier this year, our criminal > justice system must ensure that those found guilty of corruption are > subjected to the harshest of sentences. Nothing should be taken away from > that statement. > >Some may argue that because of the gravity of allegations, the Minister > should step down or be fired. They possibly would argue that it is > politically important that the President sends out a clear message that he > and his government will not tolerate corruption. This may be true. But it is > also politically true that the President should not be seen to be purging > particular sections of our society, especially noting that General Cele and > Honourable Cwele – both of whom are of the same ethnic group as the > President - have been allowed to stay on. Any hurried action against > Honourable Shiceka may give credence to the perception of Zulunisation of > South African politics and the concomitant cleansing of the so-called Xhosa > nostra. Isn’t that a politically hot issue as well? > > > >As Frederick van Zyl Slabbert once cautioned “… politics in South Africa > is not like a computer game where a cyberspace monster munches its way > through all obstacles until it gets to the target”. As he emphasized, “A > politician has to deal with the fears, prejudices, aspirations and ambitions > of the average voter. These are shaped by historical circumstances that give > content to the current dynamics of politics”. > > > >Ndisatshaya! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > >Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > >You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > >To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. > >You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to > this address (repeat): [email protected] . > > -- > You are subscribed. 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