Comrades,
Maybe the issue on the person of Comrade Minister can stop BUT the issue of
allegations popping up every sunday needs to be looked at. Who are the sources?
I think there is some sort of bureaucratic wrangling between
counter-intelligence and crime intelligence and Mzilikazi and his liberal
gangsters are having a field day! So now are most critical state apparatus are
up for grabs by the highest bidders.
Just my thoughts
Amandla!
Lesetja Diphoko
"Sent via my BlackBerry"
-----Original Message-----
From: "Ntokozo Lwandle" <[email protected]>
Sender: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:40:09
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Why Shiceka should STAY ON - at least for now
Cdes
I completey agree with VC, this is should stop here, however a seperate
debate on tribalism within our society still needs some space.
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:29:04 +0200 Dominic Tweedie wrote
We don't deal in gossips here. To say that tribalism is a national gossip
therefore it is legitimate is not acceptable.
This discussion had better stop now.
VC
On 13 April 2011 19:22, wrote:
Comrades,
As correctly spelt out by Skizo on my rights. I am compelled by my unresting
mind to make a contribution.
Firstly, there is a smoke in the ministry of cooperative governance and some
quotations which I suspect are statements made to the media around this
matter. However, the issue remains a heresy until government conducts its
investigation so as to bring sanity to the matter at hand.
However, it is correct to say, should there be an authenticity to the
allegations, the Presidency should act decisively in rooting out corruption.
In Mpumalanga, an MEC was redeployed to the legislature after sending a
security guard to go fetch shoes as far as 300km away using state resources
(car, money and the time of the employee) for personal glory.
Personal aggrandisement and greed are central elements of capitalism or
capitalist tendencies at the expense of taxpayers resources. The suggestion
of the outcome or verdict should the issue be found true is not out of hand.
One of the apex priorities of the ANC in government is to out-root
corruption. Redeployment or rather call it firing of the minister should the
allegations be confirmed is the most important indication of the seriousness
of the ANC in corruption matters.
Definitely, the President does not have powers to expel members of parliament
but reserves the authority enshrined in the constitution to invite and
disinvite cabinet members. Surely, based on this prerogative, it is correct
for COSATU and other sane citizens to suggest a harsh verdict after the
investigations found the minister to be on the wrong. This is informed by the
knowledge that such actions will be within the confines of the constitution.
On the matter of Zulunification, I stand by Skizo but not on the related
examples he made but on the perception within ANC branches dominated by other
ethnic groups. It is not wrong for Skizo to openly engage on the matter
because honestly it is a national gossip. It came out on appointments that
the security cluster was Zululised. It also came out that the Zulus dominate
cabinet. It also came out that the shuffling of cabinet did not affect Zulus.
Why do we want to behave as if the tribal card is not part of our daily
gossips and perception. This is even rife now in the leadership debates
towards Mangaung. The leadership is debated on which tribe should preside
now. I agree that the ANC declared regionalism and tribalism as an enemy of
the movement but it still exist among us. Equally, the same tribal card was
used as part of the campaign to have Zuma as President. T-Shirts were written
in bold 100% Zulu boy.
It is very interesting when comrades say we are beyond this tribal
discussion. Racism includes among others tribal discrimination, regionalism,
cultural and religious discrimination, colour bar etc. Do we really believe
that racism is not part of our daily lives. As a principle, racism is wrong
but we still pronounce racist statements everyday hence the tribal card has
not left our small heads. Until we face the truth, we will live with this
regional and tribal conflicts forever....
Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [2]
Sender: [email protected] [3] Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 14:41:30
To:
Reply-To: [email protected] [5]
Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Why Shiceka should STAY ON - at least for now
U correct my leader I think our intelligent state agency are opposition
party's agency's n also news papers
Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device
-----Original Message-----
From: "Setja Diphoko"
Sender: [email protected] [7]
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 14:30:40
To: ; CU
Reply-To: [email protected] [10]
Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Why Shiceka should STAY ON - at least for now
Comrades,
We can cut and paste various quotes by intellectuals and scholars. If Comrade
Minister is found to have engaged in any wrong doing, corrective action must
be taken. It doesn't matter what tribe he comes from, we don't talk tribalism
these days!
The way allegations are popping left, right and center-one can make a
qualified opinion that intelligence state agencies are used in order to
source such information as this goes beyond the scope of investigative
journalism, but nevertheless WRONG is WRONG and it should be corrected!
Comradely yours
Lesetja Diphoko "Sent via my BlackBerry"
-----Original Message-----
From: City Bokaba
Sender: [email protected] [12]
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 06:52:13
To:
Reply-To: [email protected] [14]
Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Why Shiceka should STAY ON - at least for now
Cde Skizo,
I stand to agree with the notion that says the allegations reported on
newspapers about cde Shiceka should be invistigated and if there is truth
around that necessary steps should be taken , but on Zulunisation of the
society is our own opinion the list is long. The Honourable Shiceka is
innocent until proven otherwise by a competent authority - be it the Office
of the Public Protector or a court of law. Any suggestion to the contrary
would not hold water, save for pure political ends.
>
>As you would recall, not too long ago the National Police Commissioner was
reported in the media to have improperly influenced the signing of a lease
agreement for new police headquarters. Despite voluminous calls for him to be
fired, he stayed on. Instead, and correctly so, an investigation was initiated
and findings thereof were presented to Cabinet - at least this information is
in the public domain already; I therefore cannot be accused of illegally
disseminating classified information.
>
>Again, not too long ago, the wife of our Intelligence Minister was arrested
on charges of drug dealing and smuggling. Some quarters of our society called
for the Minister's head, but he has stayed on to this day.
>
>The current president, before his ascendancy to the highest office in the
land, was a regular visitor to courts on allegations of corruption. Some
within our society complained so vociferously that he was unfairly charged
and prosecuted through the court of public opinion in order to serve narrow
political ends of some factions within the ruling party. As we all know, the
case was dropped by the NPA because it had been 'so politically contaminated'
that continuing with prosecution would not serve the interests of justice.
>
>Given this set of precedence, it would not only be politically
counter-intuitive but also procedurally and morally reprehensible to simply
fire Honourable Shiceka. Those who aver that he is corrupt must prove and let
the competent authorities to be the final arbiter. If the allegations are
found to be true, then the Honourable Minister must face the consequences. As
the ANC (of which I have been a member for at least 13 years) said following
its NEC lekgotla earlier this year, our criminal justice system must ensure
that those found guilty of corruption are subjected to the harshest of
sentences. Nothing should be taken away from that statement.
>Some may argue that because of the gravity of allegations, the Minister
should step down or be fired. They possibly would argue that it is
politically important that the President sends out a clear message that he
and his government will not tolerate corruption. This may be true. But it is
also politically true that the President should not be seen to be purging
particular sections of our society, especially noting that General Cele and
Honourable Cwele - both of whom are of the same ethnic group as the President
- have been allowed to stay on. Any hurried action against Honourable Shiceka
may give credence to the perception of Zulunisation of South African politics
and the concomitant cleansing of the so-called Xhosa nostra. Isn't that a
politically hot issue as well?
>
>As Frederick van Zyl Slabbert once cautioned " politics in South Africa is
not like a computer game where a cyberspace monster munches its way through
all obstacles until it gets to the target". As he emphasized, "A politician
has to deal with the fears, prejudices, aspirations and ambitions of the
average voter. These are shaped by historical circumstances that give content
to the current dynamics of politics".
>
>Ndisatshaya!
>
>
>
>
>
>
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