Cde VC, The same can be said abot Zuma whose elevation to power was similar to what we saw last week Tuesday.
We need a leader with content not a leader whose policy positions are informed by the audience listening to him. If you are with workers,you rubbish capitalism and sound pro-workers. When you are with business,you are pro-capitalism. On 9/5/11, Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> wrote: > Cde Moses, as usual, and as a typical Malema follower, you write as a fan, > but without reasons. > > Can you confirm that "KM" has agreed to your proposal? > > Personally I have long regarded KM as a disappointment. This is because of > my interest in Political Education. > > KM is one of those who, to paraphrase Shakespeare, comes to praise Political > Education, but in reality, buries it. > > He has very little of substance to say about it, and nothing practical to do > about it. In his hands, it dies. > > As Secretary-General of the ANC, and then as Deputy President, he was well > placed to bring Political Education to the fore in the ANC. But he only > talked about it, for years, and achieved nothing. > > Perhaps this is the quality you like in politicians, Cde Moses? In that > case, you would not be alone. There are clearly many people who prefer the > appearance, and are afraid of the substance. > > The struggle for substance over mere appearance is the one undertaken by > Karl Marx and Frederick Engels in the 1840s and that struggle continues. > > I wish you would get on board and stop treating politics as if it was a > fashion thing, where you support one person or another in the way that you > support your favourite singer, or favourite brand of car. > > > VC > > > > On 5 September 2011 06:23, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> ** After JZ ,we are getting KM. >> >> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device >> ------------------------------ >> *From: * sibusiso Mchunu <[email protected]> >> *Sender: * [email protected] >> *Date: *Mon, 5 Sep 2011 06:21:59 +0200 >> *To: *<[email protected]> >> *ReplyTo: * [email protected] >> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: e: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth >> >> I think what we need to accept is that TM's time did come and now we have >> JZ, just like we had Madiba, after JZ we will get somebody else, we cant >> live in the past but we can use the past to our advantage to shape the >> future, and be forward thinking. >> >> All human beings are not perfect just like use so we should not look for >> something that is no where, but what is paramount is when those fault are >> being mentioned what do you do... >> >> all of us or some, we have in one way or the other participated in >> leadership and we cant claim that we did not loose sight of the ball at >> some >> stage during leadership, therefore we need to be realistic about what we >> want and expect. >> >> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Thabang Ngcozela >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> all the state institutions in a capitalist society are in service of the >>> capitalist ruling class. Why waste time arguing about the supreme judge >>> when >>> we should be talking how best we can organise as the working class agaist >>> the capitalist system. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: e: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth >>> To: [email protected] >>> From: [email protected] >>> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:56:17 +0000 >>> >>> >>> I did expect your response Gugu...lol.. U r bitter abt me and VC giving >>> direction..lol..miss u too vha? >>> >>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *[email protected] >>> *Sender: *[email protected] >>> *Date: *Sun, 4 Sep 2011 19:04:00 +0000 >>> *To: *<[email protected]> >>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected] >>> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: e: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth >>> >>> U out of order maan Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email >>> find you! >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *[email protected] >>> *Sender: *[email protected] >>> *Date: *Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:52:06 +0000 >>> *To: *<[email protected]> >>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected] >>> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: e: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth >>> >>> Thanx VC... >>> >>> Gugu, had I not asked when were u gonna ask?? Comrades, Plz the VC n I >>> can't think for u all the time..lol >>> >>> Madala >>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> >>> *Sender: *[email protected] >>> *Date: *Sun, 4 Sep 2011 20:31:25 +0200 >>> *To: *<[email protected]> >>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected] >>> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: e: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth >>> >>> >>> Because Mogoeng Mogoeng is not a yes-man. >>> >>> Jacob Zuma does not need yes-men, but TM did need yes-men. >>> >>> Some of the media pundits try to say nowadays that there should be >>> "leadership", as if there is no programme. At the same time they ignore >>> the >>> five priorities and everything that is being done. >>> >>> The "leadership" that they mean is central control of the TM kind. But JZ >>> is not like that. Which is why we want a JZ and not a TM. >>> >>> In the JZ world we are at liberty to be what we can be, and a Mogoeng >>> Mogoeng can come to the fore without fear of jealousy from his own >>> leader. >>> >>> >>> VC >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4 September 2011 20:33, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> **Am also interested to know >>> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *[email protected] >>> *Sender: *[email protected] >>> *Date: *Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:20:18 +0000 >>> *To: *<[email protected]> >>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected] >>> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: e: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth >>> >>> Why VC do you say that?? Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> >>> *Sender: *[email protected] >>> *Date: *Sun, 4 Sep 2011 20:18:02 +0200 >>> *To: *<[email protected]> >>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected] >>> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: e: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth >>> >>> >>> Thabo Mbeki would not be likely to appoint somebody like Mogoeng Mogoeng, >>> but Jacob Zuma can. >>> >>> VC >>> >>> >>> On 4 September 2011 19:55, Mthubanzi Mniki >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>> Can someone categoricaly tell me the difference between the leadership of >>> the current ANC president, Jacob Zuma and former president Thabo Mbeki. >>> Please maqabane understand that this is not a question to suggest >>> anything, >>> this is just an honest question. Can you assist Maqabane. >>> >>> >>> ---------- >>> Sent via Nokia Email >>> >>> ------Original message------ >>> From: Petunia <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]>,"yclsa-eom-forum" < >>> [email protected]> >>> Date: Sunday, September 4, 2011 5:02:24 PM GMT+0000 >>> Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth >>> >>> Thanks cde, >>> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Thamsanqa Tu <[email protected]> >>> Sender: [email protected] >>> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:35:17 >>> To: yclsa-eom-forum<[email protected]>; >>> communist-university<[email protected]> >>> Reply-To: [email protected] >>> Subject: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth >>> >>> I find it interesting that this City Press story has not made it into >>> these forums today: >>> >>> Zuma has a plan for youth >>> >>> By: Piet Rampedi, Paddy Harper and Mandy Rossouw >>> 2011-09-04 10:00 >>> >>> President Jacob Zuma and his allies plan to take over the leadership >>> of the ANC Youth League as soon as next week. >>> >>> Seven inside sources told City Press that Zuma plans to dissolve youth >>> leader Julius Malema’s executive and replace it with a 25-member >>> group, called the “interim leadership core”, by the end of October as >>> part of the ANC’s 2012 succession battle. >>> >>> Zuma will tell the national working committee, expected to meet >>> tomorrow, that the youth league cannot continue with its top leaders >>> stuck in disciplinary hearings. An interim structure is needed, he >>> will argue. >>> >>> The decision needs to be finalised by the national executive committee >>> (NEC) which constitutionally has the power to disband any ANC >>> structure. >>> >>> Two youth leaders, an ANC national executive committee (NEC) member, >>> a provincial leader and three well-placed sources close to Zuma’s >>> allies said the ANC leader had been convinced by his confidants that >>> he could no longer “co-exist” with Malema. >>> >>> The plan included packing the interim structure with youth leaders >>> purged or suspended by Malema from the league. It would be led by >>> Limpopo youth leader Julius Malema as national convener and ANCYL >>> Eastern Cape chairperson Ayanda Matiti as secretary-general. >>> >>> The plan is for provincial and regional structures to be disbanded >>> and replaced with interim structures before a conference is held by >>> June next year, in time for next year’s conference. >>> >>> An ANC leader, who is neither sympathetic to Zuma nor Malema, said he >>> was aware of the plan. “Malema is going to be suspended or expelled. >>> Zuma’s people told him he needs to win or lose 2012 now. >>> >>> “Zuma is clever and won’t contest the conference if he knows he’s >>> going to lose. That is why he’s going for Malema.” >>> >>> A provincial ANC leader added: “Zuma has been convinced that he can no >>> longer co-exist with this boy (Malema). It’s either him, as president >>> of the ANC and the country, leading without being undermined or it’s >>> Julius.” >>> >>> Two youth leaders told City Press they had been approached about >>> serving in the interim group in case Malema was suspended. >>> >>> “The national working committee will check the relevance of the >>> league’s leadership nationally because of what is happening in the >>> country, such as the burning of flags, and make a final decision,” one >>> youth leader said. >>> >>> The sources said Malema’s nemesis Lehlogonolo Masoga was the initial >>> favourite to lead the interim group, but had since been ruled out >>> because he failed to appeal his dismissal from the league. >>> >>> Gauteng league leader Lebogang Maile was no longer an option because >>> the Zuma camp suspected him of having struck a deal with Malema. >>> >>> This entailed Maile withdrawing from the league’s recent presidential >>> race in exchange for the inclusion of his ally, ANC Gauteng >>> chairperson Paul Mashatile, in the league’s top six candidates as >>> national chairperson at the 2012 conference at Mangaung. >>> >>> For its part, the Malema camp has launched a counter-strategy that >>> includes approaching former president Thabo Mbeki to stand for the >>> position of ANC national chairperson to get rid of Zuma. >>> >>> Two ANC sources in KwaZulu-Natal said they had heard rumours that the >>> ANCYL and its backers had approached Mbeki to stand. >>> >>> “We’ve heard that they have been talking to Mbeki to try get him to >>> come back as chairperson to build the profile of their slate and add >>> capacity,” said one source. “This does seem to fit in with their >>> comments around Mbeki’s presidency, the wearing of Mbeki T-shirts and >>> the comparisons of the two presidents raised by the league.” >>> >>> A source with knowledge of the discussions said that the league >>> leadership will need to bring Mbeki’s nomination to the league NEC – >>> where it will meet “massive resistance”. “If they propose him, we >>> won’t accept that . . . That man will bring back all the things that >>> made us kick him out. We will reverse the gains of Polokwane.” >>> >>> According to the source there are only three candidates for the >>> national chairperson position – incumbent Baleka Mbete, Mashatile or >>> Cosatu general secretary Zwelinzima Vavi. >>> >>> A Luthuli House official said it is clear the league is making >>> overtures to Mbeki. “They are sending messages saying they will be >>> the foot soldiers if he fights Zuma.” >>> >>> There is doubt about whether Mbeki would accept such an offer. >>> >>> “Mbeki is one of those people who have intelligence; I doubt he will >>> soil his hands,” the official said. >>> >>> Mbeki’s spokesperson Mukoni Ratshitanga told City Press he was not >>> aware of approaches to Mbeki, who he understood was “out of South >>> African politics for good”. >>> City Press >>> -- >>> Kind Regards, >>> Thamsanqa Tu >>> >>> If you tremble indignation at every injustice then you're a comrade of >>> mine - Enersto Che Guevara >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed to the "Communist University" e-mail forum. >>> The group site is at >>> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Communist-University >>> The Communist University blog at http://domza.blogspot.com/ and our >>> wikispace web site is at http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]; or e-mail >>> [email protected] >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >>> this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected]. You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >>> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail >>> to >>> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >>> this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected]. You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >>> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail >>> to >>> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The Communist University *Blog* is at: >>> *http://domza.blogspot.com/*<http://domza.blogspot.com/> >>> *Mail Subscription*: * >>> http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/*<http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/> >>> CU Site for *downloads*: * >>> https://sites.google.com/site/communistuniversity/* >>> The *CU Africa* blog is at: *http://cuafrica.blogspot.com/* (Subscribe * >>> here <http://groups.google.com/group/CUAfrica>*) >>> The *SADTU* PolEd blog is: *http://sadtu-pol-ed.blogspot.com/* (Subscribe >>> *here <http://groups.google.com/group/sadtu-political-education-forum>*) >>> The *old CU site* is: http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ >>> Subscription/unsubscribing *difficulties*? Mail * >>> [email protected]* >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >>> this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected]. You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >>> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail >>> to >>> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >>> this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected]. You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >>> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail >>> to >>> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >>> this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected]. You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >>> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail >>> to >>> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The Communist University *Blog* is at: >>> *http://domza.blogspot.com/*<http://domza.blogspot.com/> >>> *Mail Subscription*: * >>> http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/*<http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/> >>> CU Site for *downloads*: * >>> https://sites.google.com/site/communistuniversity/* >>> The *CU Africa* blog is at: *http://cuafrica.blogspot.com/* (Subscribe * >>> here <http://groups.google.com/group/CUAfrica>*) >>> The *SADTU* PolEd blog is: *http://sadtu-pol-ed.blogspot.com/* (Subscribe >>> *here <http://groups.google.com/group/sadtu-political-education-forum>*) >>> The *old CU site* is: http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ >>> Subscription/unsubscribing *difficulties*? Mail * >>> [email protected]* >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >>> this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected]. You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >>> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail >>> to >>> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >>> this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected]. You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >>> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail >>> to >>> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >>> this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected]. You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >>> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail >>> to >>> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >>> this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected]. You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >>> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail >>> to >>> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >>> -- >>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >>> this message. >>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >>> options, pages, files and membership. >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>> [email protected]. You don't have to put >>> anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >>> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail >>> to >>> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >>> >> >> -- >> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >> this message. >> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >> options, pages, files and membership. >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. >> You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail >> to >> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >> >> -- >> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >> Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to >> this message. >> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery >> options, pages, files and membership. >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. >> You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to >> put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail >> to >> this address (repeat): [email protected] . >> > > > > -- > The Communist University *Blog* is at: > *http://domza.blogspot.com/*<http://domza.blogspot.com/> > *Mail Subscription*: > *http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/*<http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/> > CU Site for *downloads*: *https://sites.google.com/site/communistuniversity/ > * > The *CU Africa* blog is at: *http://cuafrica.blogspot.com/* (Subscribe > *here<http://groups.google.com/group/CUAfrica> > *) > The *SADTU* PolEd blog is: *http://sadtu-pol-ed.blogspot.com/* (Subscribe * > here <http://groups.google.com/group/sadtu-political-education-forum>*) > The *old CU site* is: http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ > Subscription/unsubscribing *difficulties*? Mail *[email protected]* > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to > this address (repeat): [email protected] . > -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] .
