Cde VC,

The same can be said abot Zuma whose elevation to power was similar to
what we saw last week Tuesday.

We need a leader with content not a leader whose policy positions are
informed by the audience listening to him. If you are with workers,you
rubbish capitalism and sound pro-workers. When you are with
business,you are pro-capitalism.



On 9/5/11, Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> wrote:
> Cde Moses, as usual, and as a typical Malema follower, you write as a fan,
> but without reasons.
>
> Can you confirm that "KM" has agreed to your proposal?
>
> Personally I have long regarded KM as a disappointment. This is because of
> my interest in Political Education.
>
> KM is one of those who, to paraphrase Shakespeare, comes to praise Political
> Education, but in reality, buries it.
>
> He has very little of substance to say about it, and nothing practical to do
> about it. In his hands, it dies.
>
> As Secretary-General of the ANC, and then as Deputy President, he was well
> placed to bring Political Education to the fore in the ANC. But he only
> talked about it, for years, and achieved nothing.
>
> Perhaps this is the quality you like in politicians, Cde Moses? In that
> case, you would not be alone. There are clearly many people who prefer the
> appearance, and are afraid of the substance.
>
> The struggle for substance over mere appearance is the one undertaken by
> Karl Marx and Frederick Engels in the 1840s and that struggle continues.
>
> I wish you would get on board and stop treating politics as if it was a
> fashion thing, where you support one person or another in the way that you
> support your favourite singer, or favourite brand of car.
>
>
> VC
>
>
>
> On 5 September 2011 06:23, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> ** After JZ ,we are getting KM.
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: * sibusiso Mchunu <[email protected]>
>> *Sender: * [email protected]
>> *Date: *Mon, 5 Sep 2011 06:21:59 +0200
>> *To: *<[email protected]>
>> *ReplyTo: * [email protected]
>> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: e: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth
>>
>> I think what we need to accept is that TM's time did come and now we have
>> JZ, just like we had Madiba, after JZ we will get somebody else, we cant
>> live in the past but we can use the past to our advantage to shape the
>> future, and be forward thinking.
>>
>> All human beings are not perfect just like use so we should not look for
>> something that is no where, but what is paramount is when those fault are
>> being mentioned what do you do...
>>
>> all of us or some, we have in one way or the other participated in
>> leadership and we cant claim that we did not loose sight of the ball at
>> some
>> stage during leadership, therefore we need to be realistic about what we
>> want and expect.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Thabang Ngcozela
>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>
>>>  all the state institutions in a capitalist society are in service of the
>>> capitalist ruling class. Why waste time arguing about the supreme judge
>>> when
>>> we should be talking how best we can organise as the working class agaist
>>> the capitalist system.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: e: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> From: [email protected]
>>> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:56:17 +0000
>>>
>>>
>>> I did expect your response Gugu...lol.. U r bitter abt me and VC giving
>>> direction..lol..miss u too vha?
>>>
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From: *[email protected]
>>> *Sender: *[email protected]
>>> *Date: *Sun, 4 Sep 2011 19:04:00 +0000
>>> *To: *<[email protected]>
>>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected]
>>> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: e: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth
>>>
>>> U out of order maan Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email
>>> find you!
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From: *[email protected]
>>> *Sender: *[email protected]
>>> *Date: *Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:52:06 +0000
>>> *To: *<[email protected]>
>>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected]
>>> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: e: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth
>>>
>>> Thanx VC...
>>>
>>> Gugu, had I not asked when were u gonna ask?? Comrades, Plz the VC n I
>>> can't think for u all the time..lol
>>>
>>> Madala
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From: *Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]>
>>> *Sender: *[email protected]
>>> *Date: *Sun, 4 Sep 2011 20:31:25 +0200
>>> *To: *<[email protected]>
>>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected]
>>> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: e: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth
>>>
>>>
>>> Because Mogoeng Mogoeng is not a yes-man.
>>>
>>> Jacob Zuma does not need yes-men, but TM did need yes-men.
>>>
>>> Some of the media pundits try to say nowadays that there should be
>>> "leadership", as if there is no programme. At the same time they ignore
>>> the
>>> five priorities and everything that is being done.
>>>
>>> The "leadership" that they mean is central control of the TM kind. But JZ
>>> is not like that. Which is why we want a JZ and not a TM.
>>>
>>> In the JZ world we are at liberty to be what we can be, and a Mogoeng
>>> Mogoeng can come to the fore without fear of jealousy from his own
>>> leader.
>>>
>>>
>>> VC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4 September 2011 20:33, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> **Am also interested to know
>>> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From: *[email protected]
>>>  *Sender: *[email protected]
>>> *Date: *Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:20:18 +0000
>>>   *To: *<[email protected]>
>>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected]
>>> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: e: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth
>>>
>>> Why VC do you say that?? Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From: *Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]>
>>> *Sender: *[email protected]
>>> *Date: *Sun, 4 Sep 2011 20:18:02 +0200
>>> *To: *<[email protected]>
>>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected]
>>> *Subject: *Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: e: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth
>>>
>>>
>>> Thabo Mbeki would not be likely to appoint somebody like Mogoeng Mogoeng,
>>> but Jacob Zuma can.
>>>
>>> VC
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4 September 2011 19:55, Mthubanzi Mniki
>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>
>>> Can someone categoricaly tell me the difference between the leadership of
>>> the current ANC president, Jacob Zuma and former president Thabo Mbeki.
>>> Please maqabane understand that this is not a question to suggest
>>> anything,
>>> this is just an honest question. Can you assist Maqabane.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------
>>> Sent via Nokia Email
>>>
>>> ------Original message------
>>> From: Petunia <[email protected]>
>>> To: <[email protected]>,"yclsa-eom-forum" <
>>> [email protected]>
>>> Date: Sunday, September 4, 2011 5:02:24 PM GMT+0000
>>> Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth
>>>
>>> Thanks cde,
>>> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Thamsanqa Tu <[email protected]>
>>> Sender: [email protected]
>>> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:35:17
>>> To: yclsa-eom-forum<[email protected]>;
>>> communist-university<[email protected]>
>>> Reply-To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: [CU] Zuma has a plan for youth
>>>
>>> I find it interesting that this City Press story has not made it into
>>> these forums today:
>>>
>>> Zuma has a plan for youth
>>>
>>> By: Piet Rampedi, Paddy Harper and Mandy Rossouw
>>> 2011-09-04 10:00
>>>
>>> President Jacob Zuma and his ­allies plan to take over the leadership
>>> of the ANC Youth League as soon as next week.
>>>
>>> Seven inside sources told City Press that Zuma plans to dissolve youth
>>> leader Julius Malema’s ­executive and replace it with a 25-member
>>> group, called the “interim leadership core”, by the end of ­October as
>>> part of the ANC’s 2012 succession battle.
>>>
>>> Zuma will tell the national working committee, expected to meet
>>> tomorrow, that the youth league cannot continue with its top leaders
>>> stuck in disciplinary hearings. An interim structure is needed, he
>>> will argue.
>>>
>>> The decision needs to be finalised by the national executive committee
>>> (NEC) which constitutionally has the power to disband any ANC
>>> structure.
>>>
>>> Two youth leaders, an ANC ­national executive committee (NEC) member,
>>> a provincial leader and three well-placed sources close to Zuma’s
>>> allies said the ANC leader had been convinced by his confidants that
>>> he could no longer ­“co-exist” with Malema.
>>>
>>> The plan included packing the interim structure with youth leaders
>>> purged or suspended by Malema from the league. It would be led by
>>> Limpopo youth leader Julius Malema as national convener and ANCYL
>>> Eastern Cape chairperson Ayanda Matiti as secretary-general.
>>>
>>> The plan is for provincial and ­regional structures to be disbanded
>>> and replaced with interim ­structures before a conference is held by
>>> June next year, in time ­for next year’s conference.
>>>
>>> An ANC leader, who is neither sympathetic to Zuma nor Malema, said he
>>> was aware of the plan. “Malema is going to be suspended or expelled.
>>> Zuma’s people told him he needs to win or lose 2012 now.
>>>
>>> “Zuma is clever and won’t contest the conference if he knows he’s
>>> going to lose. That is why he’s going for Malema.”
>>>
>>> A provincial ANC leader added: “Zuma has been convinced that he can no
>>> longer co-exist with this boy (Malema). It’s either him, as ­president
>>> of the ANC and the ­country, leading without being ­undermined or it’s
>>> Julius.”
>>>
>>> Two youth leaders told City Press they had been ­approached about
>>> serving in the interim group in case Malema was suspended.
>>>
>>> “The national working committee will check the relevance of the
>>> league’s leadership ­nationally ­because of what is happening in the
>>> country, such as the burning of flags, and make a final decision,” one
>>> youth leader said.
>>>
>>> The sources said Malema’s nemesis Lehlogonolo Masoga was the initial
>>> favourite to lead the ­interim group, but had since been ruled out
>>> because he failed to ­appeal his ­dismissal from the league.
>>>
>>> Gauteng league leader Lebogang Maile was no longer an option because
>>> the Zuma camp suspected him of having struck a deal with Malema.
>>>
>>> This ­entailed Maile withdrawing from the league’s recent presidential
>>> race in exchange for the inclusion of his ally, ANC Gauteng
>>> chairperson Paul Mashatile, in the league’s top six candidates as
>>> ­national chairperson at the 2012 conference at Mangaung.
>>>
>>> For its part, the Malema camp has launched a counter-strategy that
>>> includes approaching former president Thabo Mbeki to stand for the
>>> position of ANC national chairperson to get rid of Zuma.
>>>
>>> Two ANC sources in KwaZulu-Natal said they had heard rumours that the
>>> ANCYL and its backers had approached Mbeki to stand.
>>>
>>> “We’ve heard that they have been talking to Mbeki to try get him to
>>> come back as chairperson to build the profile of their slate and add
>>> ­capacity,” said one source. “This does seem to fit in with their
>>> comments around Mbeki’s presidency, the wearing of Mbeki T-shirts and
>>> the comparisons of the two presidents raised by the league.”
>>>
>>> A source with knowledge of the discussions said that the league
>>> leadership will need to bring Mbeki’s nomination to the league NEC –
>>> where it will meet “massive resistance”. “If they propose him, we
>>> won’t accept that . . . That man will bring back all the things that
>>> made us kick him out. We will reverse the gains of Polokwane.”
>>>
>>> According to the source there are only three candidates for the
>>> ­national chairperson position – ­incumbent Baleka Mbete, Mashatile or
>>> Cosatu general secretary Zwelinzima Vavi.
>>>
>>> A Luthuli House official said it is clear the league is making
>>> overtures to Mbeki. “They are sending messages ­saying they will be
>>> the foot ­soldiers if he fights Zuma.”
>>>
>>> There is doubt about whether Mbeki would accept such an offer.
>>>
>>> “Mbeki is one of those people who have intelligence; I doubt he will
>>> soil his hands,” the official said.
>>>
>>> Mbeki’s spokesperson Mukoni Ratshitanga told City Press he was not
>>> aware of approaches to Mbeki, who he understood was “out of South
>>> African politics for good”.
>>> City Press
>>> --
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> Thamsanqa Tu
>>>
>>> If you tremble indignation at every injustice then you're a comrade of
>>> mine - Enersto Che Guevara
>>>
>>> --
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