These interview in full length can be download at www.Dhammapada.Buddhistnetwork.com due to not yet uploaded at www.dhammasukha.org
June 19, 2006 "Reclaiming the Buddha's Words: An Opening Interview", with Venerable Bhante Vimalaramsi, Annapolis, Missouri, Ozark Mountains. Jeta's Grove & Dhamma Sukha Meditation Center Interviewer: What was the main discovery the Buddha made that was different from other teachings at that time? Interviewer: As a teacher, what are your main sources for teaching the Dhamma? Bhante V: My main sources for teaching come from the Suttas and the Books of Discipline (Vinaya) which brings me to a point that many people misunderstand (especially in the West). The Vinaya is usually thought to be only the ``Rules of Discipline'' for the monks, but actually there is a great deal of wisdom and practical advice one can gain by reading the suttas in the Vinaya. When I give Dhamma talks I read a Sutta and explain how it is relevant to one's daily meditation practice. I mainly use the Majjhima Nikaya, the Samyutta Nikaya (the Bhikkhu Bodhi Translations from Wisdom Publications) and occasionally take some Suttas from the Vinaya. If you want to get a sample of a Dhamma talk go to our website at ............................................................ www.dhammasukha.org/Study/resources.htm#talk . Interviewer: Why are so many people having trouble achieving full liberation from the taints and fetters, through meditation today? Interviewer: What are the qualities and teachings that we should look for in a teacher when we are ready to practice meditation? Bhante V: One of the most important things to look for in the teacher and his guidance is, whether that teacher understands and teaches their students Dependent Origination as seen through the eyes of the 4 Noble Truths. This is the core teaching that the Buddha spent 45 years showing us. In the Samyutta Nikaya there is one sutta that talks about this very thing. This is from The Book of Causation 82 (1) it says: At Savatthi. "Bhikkhus, one who does not know and see as it really is, aging-and-death, its origin, its cessation, and the way leading to the cessation, (this is the Four Noble Truths) should search for a teacher in order to know this is as it really is. "Bhikkhus, one who does not know and see as it really is birth ... existence ... clinging ... craving ... feeling ... contact ... the six sense bases ... mentality/ materiality ... consciousness ... volitional formations, their origin, their cessation, and the way leading to their cessation, should search for a teacher in order to know this as it really is." This pretty much sums up what one should look for in a teacher. There is the next sutta [83 (2)] that explains How one should approach their training. It says: "Bhikkhus, one who does not know and see as it actually is, aging-and-death... birth... existence... clinging... craving... feeling... contact... the six sense bases... mentality/materiality... consciousness... volitional formations, their origin, their cessation and the way leading to their cessation, should practice the training in order to know this as it really is. So this gives a sincere meditator, who wants to get off of this birth-death cycle, the way to truly practice meditation. Also, please notice that there is no mention of the three Characteristics of existence (that is impermanence, suffering, and the impersonal nature of all existence) in this description. Why do you suppose this is? The answer can be found in the Maha-Vagga of the Vinaya it says: "The meditator can see, one or all of the `Three Characteristics of Existence' (impermanence, suffering and the impersonal nature of all existence), without seeing Dependent Origination, but when one sees Dependent Origination directly they will always see all of the `Three Characteristics'." This is very interesting because when people practice straight Vipassana meditation, they are taught that seeing the ``Three Characteristics'' is the main goal of straight vipassana, as it is being taught today! Interviewer: Exactly, how is Nibbana experienced according to the suttas and what is the genuine experience of the freedom, that the Buddha spent so much time showing us? Interviewer: What are the two different types of ``Jhana'' that you talk about in your Dhamma talks from the suttas? Interviewer: What are some of the terms used in Buddhist meditation where the present day definitions appear to be confusing one's clear understanding and progress for the meditators in the West? Bhante V: Well actually, there are a lot of terms that have very specific definitions in Buddhist terminology and meditation that need to be defined as to their deeper meaning. These are words that everybody knows and uses but not many people can give a concise definition for them. So I will try to give a precise set of ``working definitions'' for commonly misunderstood words according to the way they are meant in the Buddhist texts. When I question some people about the word ``Meditation'' (Bhavana), for example, I seem to get a very vague and confusing definition. Like "being one with the universe". What in the world is that supposed to mean? A good ``working definition'' of the word ``Meditation'' (Bhavana) is "watching how mind's attention moves (anicca) moment-to-moment in order to see clearly the Four Noble Truths and the true impersonal nature of HOW the pattern of Dependent Origination occurs." Another word that is often used is the word "Mindfulness" (Sati) this word is often defined by using the words ``Just Be Mindful ``. I just read an article that defined Mindfulness as "to remember, to remember, to remember"! (which seems to be another case of "Diluted Dhamma" which sounds great but has no real explanation). If that isn't confusing, I don't know what is! A better working definition is - "Mindfulness is remembering to recognize and release any distraction that pulls one's attention away from their meditation object". Notice how closely ``Meditation'' (Bhavana) and ``Mindfulness'' (Sati) are interlinked? The function of "Mindfulness" (Sati) is to remember. The question is to remember what? To remember to see everything that arises (Anicca) as being a part of an impersonal process (Anatta), to remember to observe how the 4 Noble Truths and Dependent Origination interact with each other. This infers, that we have to learn "HOW" to be observant with everything that arises all of the time. Not just while we are sitting in ``Meditation'' (Bhavana), but all of the time! Another interesting word for consideration is the word ``Craving'' (Tanha). The common definition means ``to want or desire'', but there is much more to this word. According to the Buddha there is a definite pattern with everything that arises. For instance, in order "to see" there is a set way things happen. First, there must be a functioning sense door such as the eye. Next there must be color and form. When the eye hits color and form then eye- consciousness arises. The meeting of these three things is called eye-contact. With eye-contact as condition eye-feeling arises (Feeling [Vedana] is pleasant, painful or neither painful nor pleasant and this is either physical or mental feeling.) With eye- feeling as condition, then eye-craving arises. Now ``Craving'' (Tanha) in all of its many different forms (seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, bodily sensations, and thoughts) always arises as being a tightness or tension in both mind and body. ``Craving'' (Tanha) always manifests as the "I like it or I don't like it" mind and can be recognized as tension or tightness in both one's mind and body. This is where we come to understand the importance of the Buddha's instructions about consciously tranquilizing one's mind and body. When the meditator has any kind of distraction arising, that pulls their attention away from their object of meditation, then a feeling immediately arises, and next, right after that the "I like it, I don't like it" [craving-Tanha] mind arises. This is seen sometimes as a big gross tightness and sometimes as a very subtle tightness or tension in mind and body. As ``Craving'' (Tanha) is the cause of suffering (the Second Noble Truth) what the meditator must do is softly let go of that tension or tightness (i.e. relax, and this must consciously be done it doesn't happen automatically as it is shown in the meditation instruction given to us by the Buddha) then gently redirect mind's attention back to the object of meditation (this step is the Third Noble Truth or the cessation of craving or suffering, this is also called `pure mind' because there is no craving in it at all). In practical terms this relaxing is the most important and major step that the Buddha discovered, this and the Fourth Noble Truth- that is ``the way'' leading to the Cessation of Suffering. The Buddha saw that when ``Craving'' (Tanha) was let go of, mind became clear, open, and very observant. He saw that the thinking mind did not arise. The thinking mind in Buddhism is called ``Clinging'' (Upadana). So, when a teacher says something like "Cling To Nothing" they are actually saying to ``stop thinking about things and just observe''. which is good advice as far as it goes. Actually it would be better to say "Crave Nothing" but that would be misunderstood because how are we supposed to do that? "Crave Nothing" means ``to notice and let go of the tightness or tension in one's mind and body before it arises''. How does one do this? When one sees a ``Feeling'' arise, if they relax at that very moment, then the ``Craving'' (Tanha) won't arise. ``Craving'' (Tanha) is the weak link in the cycle or process of Dependent Origination. It CAN be recognized and let go of, and when it is released then the ``Clinging'' (Upadana) won't arise. One thing that has become popular today is the putting together of these two words, ``Craving/Clinging'' and I think it helps to cause even more confusion. ``Craving'' is the "I like it, I don't like it" mind and ``Clinging'' is all of the thoughts, ideas, opinions, and concepts why mind likes or dislikes a feeling when it arises. They are two very different and separate parts to the process of how things work. So putting them together just makes one's understanding of this process, even more cloudy. Some teachers today are trying to say the ``Craving and Clinging'' can be best defined as ``Grasping''. And as I just explained that moves away from the more precise definitions that the Buddha shows us within his teaching. Also, there is the word ``delusion'' (Moha). In some Buddhist traditions the word "delusion" (Moha) is linked up with two other words which are ``Lust'' (lobha) and ``Hatred'' (dosa). Together these three words are sometimes called "the three poisons". This actually is a reasonable way to look at them. But there is some confusion about what "delusion" (Moha) actually means. Let's see what the Buddha was talking about, every time he used this word. According to the suttas the word ``Delusion'' (Moha) means to see whatever arises as being a personal self (Atta). Or we can say that ``Delusion'' (Moha) is seeing things through the false (Deluded) idea of a self (Atta). In other words, one takes all feelings or sensations to be a part of the "I", "Me", "Mine" (Atta) identification. Anytime one takes a feeling as being theirs personally, they have the tendency to try and control it with their own personal (Atta) thoughts, emotions, opinions, concepts, or ideas (Upadana or Clinging). And this is a big cause of suffering (Dukkha)! Let us quickly go back to the Five Aggregates (Pan~ca Khandha). Again they are body (Contact), feeling, perception, formations (which includes thoughts) and consciousness. When a feeling (Vedana) arises (as described earlier) whether it is a pleasant feeling or a painful feeling the natural tendency for one's mind is to try to "think" the "feeling" and control it. In this way, one begins to see those feelings and thoughts as being theirs personally (Atta). This is a mind full of delusion (Moha). Anytime one takes anything that arises as being personally theirs, (Atta) instead of seeing that this is an impersonal process (Anatta) to be let go of, there is delusion (Moha). Delusion of what? Delusion that all thoughts and feelings are ours to take personally (Atta) and then attempt to control them by sheer will-power. Which the Buddha said is the cause of immense suffering (Dukkha). So what is a meditator to do about this? The first thing that one can do is see all of these thoughts, concepts and opinions as they truly are. That is just thoughts, concepts and opinions that arose because conditions were right for them to arise. Then to let them go and relax the tightness or tension caused by that distraction. Next the meditator will notice that there is a tight mental fist wrapped around the feeling. This tight mental fist is aversion and craving. The truth is when a feeling arises it is there (that is the Dhamma of the present moment). Anytime one tries to fight with the truth, anytime one tries to control the truth, anytime one tries to make the truth be what they want it to be, that person is causing themselves huge amounts of pain and suffering! The more they try to control the truth with their thoughts the bigger and more intense the suffering becomes. It is like someone picks up a red hot piece of charcoal, they say "OW! That's hot!", so then they start to squeeze that coal and they "Say, boy! This is really painful!" and the more pain they feel and try to think it away, the worse the pain becomes. What would you do in this kind of a situation? Of course, you would open up your hand and let the red hot piece of charcoal go! Whenever a meditator has a feeling arise, it is very like picking up that hot coal and they have the choice of what to do with it. They can either let it go or not! When a meditator sees a tight mental fist wrapped around a feeling they can let it go and allow that feeling to be there by itself, then they can see clearly that there is a need to relax the tightness caused by that feeling and then redirect their mind back to the meditation object (the breath and relaxing on the in and out breath). When a meditator handles a painful feeling in this way, they will begin to see that this is just a part of an impersonal process (Anatta) to be observed and let go of, instead of an enemy to fight with or try to control. Seeing this process as being impersonal (Anatta) with an undeluded mind (Amoha) is what the Buddha teaches us. If the meditator sees and takes the feeling personally (Atta) they are said to be caught in the "Mire of Delusion". Another word that we are all supposed to automatically know what the meaning is, this word is ``Wisdom''. This word is often defined by using the words ``To Be Wise''. In the Buddhist teaching, ``Wisdom'', means that one sees and understands (in the texts this is described as knowledge and vision [sampajjana]) exactly how the Four Noble Truths and the process of Dependent Origination are yoked together, also how they arise and pass away (Anicca). Anytime the words ``Wise Attention'' or ``Wisdom'' is seen in the suttas they are referring to the understanding of the Four Noble Truths and the process of Dependent Origination. For example, in ``The Anupada Sutta'', that I referred to earlier, the words used to describe Venerable Sariputta's experience of attaining Nibbana are: "And his taints were destroyed by his seeing with wisdom". The question that needs to be asked is ``seeing what'' and ``how did he see it''? The answer is he saw, understood and realized exactly how the Four Noble Truths occur by seeing the impersonal (Anatta) process of Dependent Origination (Paticca Samupada). Only by seeing, understanding and realizing this did he finally let go of all of the taints. So every time the words ``Wise Attention'', or ``Wisdom'' show up in the suttas this is what these words refer to. The phrase ``the taints are destroyed by seeing with wisdom'' implies, that the way to experience Nibbana is through our own understanding of how the Four Noble Truths and the process of Dependent Origination occurs, in all situations. This is a very important thing to realize! Too many people think that attaining Nibbana is some mystical- magical experience that occurs where all of a sudden "Bingo, I am enlightened!" , but unfortunately it doesn't work this way. Actually, the experience of Nibbana only comes through the deep understanding and direct experience of the process mentioned above. This is why when I talked about what ``Jhana States'' are and the differences, I gave an example of one kind of jhana where mind was fixed on only one thing versus the Samatha/Vipassana Jhana that is used for exploring how the process of mind's attention actually works. The definition of each ``Samatha/Vipassana Jhana meditation stage'' is where one sees and understands the impersonal process (anatta) of the way things really are. This is what was taught and practiced by the Buddha. Each `Samatha/Vipassana Jhana stage'' is a deeper level of the understanding of just how mind's attention arises and shifts, that is how the Four Noble Truths and the "seeing of this impersonal process (Anatta) of Dependent Origination" (Paticca Samupada) is in everything that occurs. Another word is ``Insight'' (Vipassana). This word has a surface meaning which is ``seeing things as they truly are''. But according to the Buddha's definition it goes much deeper than that. ``Insight'' or understanding into what? Realizing the impersonal nature and deep understanding of the Four Noble Truths and ``HOW'' Dependent Origination actually occurs with everything that arises (Anicca) in one's mind and body. In other words, one gains a deeper and deeper understanding (in each stage of Jhana) of the impersonal process of "HOW'' mind and body arises through truly seeing and understanding (knowledge and vision) of the Four Noble Truths interconnection with the ongoing processes of Dependent Origination. When one can see clearly these processes in all of existence, they will experience an unshakable knowledge that this is the right path to follow. Mind begins to see clearly that whatever arises (Anicca) is a part of a definite process and this leads to a deep understanding that everything going on is a part of an impersonal pattern (anatta). These ``Insights'' can occur at anytime whether one is sitting in meditation or doing their daily activities. They are quite profound when they occur. ``Insights'' are like finding a lost part to a puzzle and this is where the true "aha!" experiences occur. Here again is another word to look at. In Pali the word is ``Samatha''. The meaning of ``Samatha'' is tranquility, serenity, peacefulness, or stillness. And the common popular definition is a strongly one-pointed type of concentration, absorption concentration, or ecstatic concentration. This specific definition of serenity or tranquility certainly implies a different type of "collectedness" than the deeper types of absorption or ecstatic ``concentration''. The goal of absorption or ecstatic concentration is to have mind stay on only one thing as if it were glued to it (to the exclusion of anything else), the ``Samatha Collectedness'' implies to have a mind that is still, serene, and calm, but alert to whatever shifting or moving mind does moment-to-moment. Of course Samatha/Vipassana (which is the standard way it is described in the suttas) leads to the total liberation of mind by seeing and recognizing how the 4 Noble Truths interact with Dependent Origination. Samatha/Vipassana leads directly to the end-result of Nibbana and absorption or ecstatic concentration does not, as the Bodhisatta found out first hand. Interviewer: Why do you choose to change the commonly used word ``Concentration'', to ``Collectedness''? Bhante V: I much prefer the word ``Collectedness'' to the word ``Concentration''. Here in the West people take the word ``Concentration'' to mean a kind of deep one-pointedness of mind or an absorbed mind and this is not what the Buddha was trying to get across. Before the time of the Buddha there were many words that described deep absorption or one-pointedness of mind. But the Buddha made up a new word "Samadhi" to describe a completely different way of seeing and experiencing the Jhana. After the Buddha's paranibbana, because this word was very popular, the Brahmins of that time changed the definition of ``Samadhi'' back to mean - ``strong one-pointedness''. But, the Buddha was showing that there is a difference between a ``Collected Mind'' and a strongly absorbed or ``Concentrated Mind''``. The words ``Collected Mind''` (Samadhi) gives us the idea of a mind that is composed, calm, still, and very alert. This kind of mind observes whenever mind's attention shifts from one thing to another. A ``Concentrated' mind", means that mind is stuck on one thing to the exclusion of anything else that may try to arise. A ``Concentrated' Mind'' by this definition loses full awareness (Sampajjana) and mindfulness (Sati) of what is happening in the present moment, because it is only seeing the one thing it is pointing at. This statement also refers to "access or neighborhood concentration" (Upacara Samadhi) and "moment-to-moment concentration" (Khanika Samadhi). Why? The simple answer is, there is no tranquilizing of mind and body before the meditator brings their attention back to the object of meditation. Because of this, there is no seeing of how the Four Noble Truths and Dependent Origination actually work and how craving (tightness) is brought back to the meditation object. This is why when the teachers of straight ``Vipassana'' tell their students that ``Absorption Concentration'' won't ever lead to Nibbana, they are 100% correct. Any kind of practice which divides ``Samatha Meditation'' and ``Vipassana Meditation'' into two different practices, can't possibly lead one to Nibbana. Why? Because mind has the need to be calm, composed, and clear, while it is in a jhana, in order to see the interconnectedness of the 4 Noble Truths and Dependent Origination, fully. This is why the practice of straight vipassana has led to so much disappointment after so many years of hard work for some students. The Buddha taught us to practice ``Samatha/ Vipassana'' together and this is the difference between commentary based meditation practices and the Sutta approach to meditation. The results of these two practices are different. One- pointed ``Concentration'" is not the same kind of mental development that the Buddha shows us. The Buddha taught us to tranquilize our mind and body every time mind's attention shifts from one thing to another. The ``Collected Mind'`` is not so deeply one-pointed that the force of one's ``Concentration" causes mind to stay on one object of meditation, even if that attention ``Concentrates'' on something momentarily. The ``Collected Mind'' is able to observe how mind's attention goes from one thing to another, very precisely. There is much more full awareness of both mind and body here than with a deeply ``Concentrated'' one- pointed mind or absorbed mind''. This is why I choose to use the word ``Collected'' rather than ``Concentrated''` mind. By using the word "Collected" there is less confusion about the kind of meditation that the Buddha is referring to and it is easier to understand the descriptions given in the suttas. Interviewer: Would you please talk about the importance of keeping one's precepts, how hindrances arise and their connection to the practice? Interviewer: So do the precepts and hindrances directly effect your meditation? Interviewer: How often should a person take their precepts? Interviewer: So are the hindrances to be considered valuable in the practice? Interviewer: When the hindrances do arise what should the meditator do to lessen their hold, so the meditator can progress in their meditation? Interviewer: Is the actual Practice to learn to see HOW this works and where to let go? Interviewer: Is there a danger of attachment of this joy here? Interviewer: Is what you are teaching a new method of teaching meditation? For more information about meditation retreats and the Buddha's Teachings according to the Suttas and Vinaya, please go to our website at www.dhammasukha.org or contact Bhante Vimalaramsi at Dhamma Sukha Meditation Center, RR1 Box 100, Annapolis, MO. 63620, U.S.A. or write an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] May all beings always be happy and may you attain Nibbana quickly and easily, in this very life! ********************************************************************* ********* MP3 Dhamma Talks By Ven Dhammavuddho Maha Thera http://www.vbgnet.org Vihara Buddha Gotama KUCHING DHAMMA TOUR - The recorded Dhamma Talks (and Q & As too) are hereby reproduced for both days (27~28 May) .... http://friendsofthedhamma.net/Kuching_Dhamma_Tour1.html www.Dhammapada.Buddhistnetwork.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. 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