You can post here on whatever subject you want - within reason.


This is a zen forum so in my opinion the posts should somehow be related to
zen - but that's just my opinion.  I think if you want to post, for example,
on how to tear down a small-block Chevy V-8 engine there are more
appropriate forums on which to do that.  On the other hand you could relate
the meticulous and detailed work involved in performing mechanical tasks to


I don't think anyone's ever been cautioned about posting on any religious
topic.  And to prove that I'll ask you:


What is Liberation Theology and why does it interest you?




From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:25 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] More about arguments and ego



I find most of your comments helpful, but I do still have a problem with
them overrunning the religious forum. It's at the point where the only
religious discussions are negative. Which is sad, because people shouuld
feel comfortable discussing,say, Liberation Theology.

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> ,
<billsm...@...> wrote:
> DP,
> My comments are embedded below:
> I've thought some more about my problrm with getting into arguments on the
> internet. I think that the internet has fueled a certain type of ugliness
> arguments, with its tendency towards short comments that snipe at
> errors in one's posts. I want to walk away, and yet I hate the idea of the
> bullies winning the argument.
> [Bill!] If you have a problem it is NEVER someone else's fault. The
> is yours.
> In the case above your problem is 'hating the idea that the bullies win
> argument'. Throw that hate away. It takes two to argue, so don't argue
> with them. Just state your thoughts and feelings and leave it at that. If
> they don't 'get it' or if they feel they've 'won', that's THEIR problem.
> Don't make it yours.
> I find that in religious discussions the "internet atheists" (a specific
> term for these type of arguers, not all atheists) tend to crowd out people
> who want to sincerely discuss religion on particular forums, so I get
> frustrated.
> [Bill!] If you're not wanted somewhere, or are picked on as entertainment,
> just leave. Go somewhere else. Let them occupy that space and then they
> can pick on each other. 
> But here's where the ego comes in. Obviously, there is ego involved in
> winning an argument, but there is also some ego in leaving. I feel like
> saying "i'm taking my ball and going home."
> [Bill!] Yes, there is ego involved. Ego = Self. Zen practice will soften
> and eventually dissolve your illusion of self.
> As well, i'm very insecure about my beliefs, and I feel like I'm somehow
> worthy of my arguments. How does insecurity relate to ego, or is that a
> completely different question?
> [Bill!] How can you be insecure about your beliefs? Are you sure you
> BELIEVE your beliefs? If you do really BELIEVE your beliefs than you can't
> be insecure about them. You are the sum of your beliefs. Insecurity
> DIRECTLY relates to ego and the illusion of self. If you have an illusion
> of self (maintain an ego) you are operating as an illusion. When this
> illusion is challenged or shown to be incorrect or distorted you can feel
> insecure. If you do not have an illusion of self there is nothing to
> challenge and nothing to distort. There is Just THIS!, and although that
> can be challenged it can't be shown to be incorrect or distorted in anyway
> because it's so, so simple - it's Just THIS! Just YOU! Buddha Nature!
> .Bill!
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