Anthony,

There are indeed different practices. Neither am I saying my practice is the only way.


Yet, if you read your posts carefully, you are discriminating concept and terms instead of practices. You are saying this is Buddhist and that is not Buddhist. You are saying this is sentient being and that is not sentient being. That's karma and that is not karma.

The key to enlightenment is to clearly detached from all "form, description, labels". Self witness is the only truthful path.

What's I am trying to convey is not to focus on concept, but practice. Any kind of practice, which I have failed to read from you post all these years. You seem to be standing on the sideline and having fun.

I am not offended, just concerned. Not only you, but everyone I come to contact.

There is not very much time for all of us. We need to cut through the delusions. Meaning put down all value we hold dearly and let our heart shine through.

JM

Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org


On 11/27/2010 5:43 AM, Anthony Wu wrote:

JMJM,

I am not saying you are wrong. If you are happy with your practice and feel good, that is great. However, please note:

There are different ways of practice, with very different results.

It is too early for you to come to the conclusion that you have 'surpassed' your karma. There are no signs that you are able to see your previous and future lives, so you don't know how your karma has performed and will work out. Maybe you deny the existence of past and future lives, then you are like a materialist that doesn't recognize karma. That is possibly a contradiction.

There is no doubt 'chi' is an important factor. I believe so, though I don't know much about it.

>From what you have posted so far, I already came to the conclusion that the heart chan benefits from both Buddhism and Taoism. But you cannot claim that all chan schools have the same way. The Chinese word chan is derived from Sanskrit jhana, and has developed from into many different schools, such as Tiantai, Linji (Rinzai), Caodong (Soto) etc.

I am sorry if I am disturbing your busy schedule. I only hope that you are not like fanatic moslims or Christians who claim they are the 'only' correct way.

Don't be offended by what I have said. Please refer to the Diamond Sutra: the Buddha has said nothing, neither have I (grin).

Anthony

--- On Sat, 27/11/10, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.j...@gmail.com <mailto:chan.jmjm%40gmail.com>> wrote:

From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.j...@gmail.com <mailto:chan.jmjm%40gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Nirvana and Buddhahood
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, 27 November, 2010, 7:42 AM



Dearest Anthony,

The following words are from my heart. Please read them carefully. I am getting busier everyday and having less and less time to post.

Chan benefits from the essence of Tao and Buddhism. Chan practices with Tao principles for immortality and explains spirituality with Buddhism terms. In the end both health and spirituality are formless and language less. While I notice that you are still caught in categorization and analyzing with your head.

What I shared with you is the teaching from a living Buddha and a Chan Master. We have over half a million people benefited from his teaching and hundreds have already witnessed most of his journey.

I have witnessed the cells as sentient beings. I have witnessed critical importance of chi to help us surpass our karmic physic hindrance. I have witnessed a true journey. Yet I must tell you that journey is just journey. Journey is indescribable with words. Nirvana, enlightenment and Buddhahood are still just words to me. They are not important because they are not absolute and they are not IT.

Nothing is more precious than the practice. (Let us practice without our mind.)

Nothing is more important than self-witness.  (Let us not idolize words.)

And there is really nothing else. (Just detach from everything including my post and follow your heart.)

JMJM
Head Teacher
Order of Buddha Heart
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org

On 11/26/2010 2:17 PM, Anthony Wu wrote:


JMJM,

Energizing cells is different from saving sentient beings. Union with unversal 'chi' is a taoist idea, not buddhist. If you feel good about your approach, that is fine. But whether you can surpass your karmic hindrances is another matter. Moreover, I don't understand how Buddhahood and/or nirvana can be graded or classified.

Anthony


--- On Sat, 27/11/10, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.j...@gmail.com <mailto:chan.jmjm%40gmail.com>> wrote:

From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.j...@gmail.com <mailto:chan.jmjm%40gmail.com>>
Subject: [Zen] Nirvana and Buddhahood
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, 27 November, 2010, 4:02 AM



Bill and Anthony,

I was taught to practice as follows for your reference. It may not be the same as some of the teachings that you "understand". But my witness so far is quite on par.

First we practice to clean up our body, through chi based cultivation. As we become healthier, all sentient beings within our body are saved, meaning every cell is energized.

As we focus on these chakras and chi channels, we begin to be detached from all forms. And our awareness is enhanced. Our Inner Awarenss will monitor and quiet our thoughts. When we are able to be quite detached from forms, we have reached nirvana. It is just a liberationg from suffering, both body and mind. Nothing else. It is a state still can be further enhanced through the next stage.

After we reached nirvana, we could then help everyone around us to be awakened and liberated, through our wisdom, which is a direct connection with the universe without egoic notions. This is a stage of working in the mud to gain the wisdom and life force. At this stage we gradually learn also how to heal the body and mind of others and in turn further enhances our nirvana.

The more sentient beings we connect through our hearts, the higher the Buddhahood we reach. In short, the Awakened One is accomplished through Awaken Oneself. Awaken Others, then Perfect the Act of Awakening. This is a common Buddhist statement. I must add however, all Buddhist sutra said, we must surpass the Three Karmic Hindrances, our body, mind, and spirit. Without a chi oriented practice, we could take much much longer to surpass just the first karmic hindrance of our physical body. Surpassing our physical body does not mean detachment from the real physical discomfort of our body, but rather truly heal and rejuvenate our body to reach perfect health.

If your body has the same kind of illness after one year of meditation, then your technique needs to be changed.

JMJM
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org

On 11/26/2010 8:02 AM, billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org> wrote:


Anthony,

I’ll repeat again that it is my understanding that the Mahayana’s vow is to not enter Nirvana before all other sentient beings are saved – not to postpone enlightenment until all other beings are saved.

You are basically equating Nirvana with enlightenment. Is that what you mean? Do you think these two terms describe the same experience?

…Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 7:47 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon
book

Bill,

'First enlightenment, then help others' is Theravada philosophy. It is to some extent in conflict with mahayana's 'first save all beings, then enlightenment (nirvana)'. As you agree, the latter is unfeasible in this world. I can only explain it in terms of intention.

Anthony

--- On Fri, 26/11/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org> <billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org>> wrote:

From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org> <billsm...@hhs1963.org <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org>>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, 26 November, 2010, 6:22 PM

ED,

I believe Mahayana Buddhism teaches that you should not enter Nirvana nor break yourself off of the Wheel-of-Life (the continuous cycle of birth and rebirth) until all sentient beings are released from suffering. This is not the same as saying your should help others before helping yourself. Just like the oxygen mask example, you do have to get yourself in a position to help others before trying to help.

I can’t give you a source but one quote I remember from somewhere is: ‘First attain enlightenment. Then instruct all beings.’

…Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 4:16 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book

ED,

You say: Of what use is a dead bodhisattva to anyone?

My suggestion: fly to Dharamsala and ask Dalai Lama. (It is an essential mahayana teaching that you should help others before helping yourself.)

Anthony

--- On Thu, 25/11/10, ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com <mailto:seacrofter001%40yahoo.com>> wrote:

From: ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com <mailto:seacrofter001%40yahoo.com>>
Subject: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 9:46 PM

Of what use is a dead bodhisattva to anyone?
A mother who really cares for her child will put on her own oxygen mask first. On the other hand, "The life of an enlightened being is like the shadow of a bird on water."
--ED

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Anthony Wu <wu...@...> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> You got it wrong. Bodhisatvas advise you put the oxygen mask on other
people before you have it on yourself. >
> You have not answer whether you don't think preventing turmoil is necessary.
>
> Anthony

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