Anthony, My non-professional theory is that rapists are ABLE to rape (and generally do harm to others) because they see their victims as objects. There is no empathy, no compassion, no feeling of connection. Buddha Mind breaks down the dualistic barrier of self/other so there is lots of empathy, compassion and connectiveness. This, in my opinion, would lower the likelihood of doing intentional harm to others.
--- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > You say, 'rapists rape because they have no empathy or regard for others.' > > When they realized Buddha nature, there are no 'they' or 'others', so raping > is justified. > > Anthony > > --- On Fri, 25/2/11, Bill! <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > Subject: [Zen] Re: Can A Buddha Harm Others? > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, 25 February, 2011, 6:01 PM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > Edgar and Kristy, > > > > This isn't a rape forum, but for what it's worth I don't beleive that most > rapists rape because of unsatisfied sexual desires. That might be a factor, > but I beleive rapists rape because they have no empathy or regard for others. > They don't see them as other people. They see them as objects, and can feel > free to use them however they wish. Rape is just one of the things they can > do to them. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Kristy McClain <healthyplay1@> wrote: > > > > > > Edgar, > > > ÃÂ > > > Your conclusions here are simply not accurate.ÃÂ I agreed that sex is one > > of the factors t that motivate rape.ÃÂ But being sexually > > satisfiedÃÂ does not prevent rapes from occuring.ÃÂ Many, many rapists > > are married, and have sexual opportunities with other partners as well.ÃÂ > > Men have the option of seeking a sexual submissive, yet that does not > > influence the rapeÃÂ incidence.ÃÂ > > > ÃÂ > > > Your comments HERE do offer some insight: > > > ÃÂ > > > "they rape out of unsatisfied desires. If those desires are satisfied they > > would never become a rapist. But even a 'normal' man, under enough duress > > and unsatisfied desire may become a rapist given a situation" > > > ÃÂ > > > This is notÃÂ a rape forum, nor do I have the time to access the accurate > > research data to continue this discussion here, but I agree that menÃÂ > > often rape due to a combination of unfulfilled needs, their own > > narcississtic injuries, bio-chemical and psycho-dynamic processes, in > > addition to a desire for sexual release. > > > ÃÂ > > > WhileÃÂ I agree thatÃÂ it is an evolutionary trait,ÃÂ that doesn't > > meanÃÂ that we must accept it as is.ÃÂ It means that we have an > > obligation to work with these people, with a compassionate heart, in order > > to better understand how to re-direct their impulses, and find emotional > > and physical resolutions in a peacefulÃÂ way. > > > ÃÂ > > > Take care, > > > ÃÂ > > > Kristy > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 2/24/11, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Can A Buddha Harm Others? > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 5:00 AM > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kristy, > > > > > > > > > I said "voluntarily" satisfy, not be a sex slave.... In other words if a > > man is loved and his desires satisfied by a woman who loves him, he doesn't > > have the need to become a rapist. > > > > > > > > > I think the hidden message here is that men aren't born rapists, they rape > > out of unsatisfied desires. If those desires are satisfied they would never > > become a rapist. But even a 'normal' man, under enough duress and > > unsatisfied desire may become a rapist given a situation in which he thinks > > he can get away with it. > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 23, 2011, at 9:26 PM, Kristy McClain wrote: > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > ÃÂ > > > I agree fully with your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs, but I disagree with part of > > what you say in the first, when you suggest that the cureÃÂ for a rapist, > > is to have a willing partner to satisfyÃÂ and indulge his sexual appetite > > and fantasiey, whenever he desires it.ÃÂ While i acknowledge thatÃÂ > > rape is indeed motivated in part, by sexual urges, it is not the > > completeÃÂ picture.ÃÂ I don't know if you followed the earlier thread > > wherein I discussed D/s and voluntary sexual submission /slavery? > > > ÃÂ > > > Having a sexual servant who provides fulfillment for every fantasy, no > > matter how dark or violent, does not seem to impact the rape stats, or the > > cases for SVU units.ÃÂ So there is more to this.ÃÂ This area is not my > > range of study or experience, butÃÂ clearly, there are other factors. > > > ÃÂ > > > Thanks, > > > ÃÂ > > > Kristy > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 2/23/11, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Can A Buddha Harm Others? > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2011, 1:56 PM > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > Kristy, > > > > > > > > > Good objective comments. Rape fantasies are indeed common among women, > > though of course these are invariably about really appealing lusty guys who > > won't take no for an answer rather than men that the woman isn't attracted > > to as may well be the case in actual rapes. The cure for rape is of course > > for the potential rapist to have a woman who satisfies all his desires > > voluntarily. If this is the case he has no need to go elsewhere on any > > terms. Unfortunately few women know how to provide this to a man. It's not > > just about providing ordinary sex, but fulfilling his deepest psychological > > needs as a man as well. > > > > > > > > > Throughout history rape has been quite common and everyone of us is almost > > certainly the descendant of one or more rapes in their ancestry.ÃÂ From an > > evolutionary perspective rape is quite natural and is an excellent strategy > > to maximize one's genetic legacy - if one can get away with it. As ED's > > article points out this is usually only the case in when the woman in > > question is not under the protection of male family members as is usually > > the case in traditional societies. In modern western societies the state > > has usurped male protection of women which makes them more vulnerable to > > rape. > > > > > > > > > Men were given a very strong natural desire to have sex with attractive > > women at almost any cost if they can manage it. The genes that give that > > impetus have been strengthened because such men tend to leave more > > descendants carrying those genes. Every man has at least some desire to > > rape women he can't get otherwise though that desire is usually tempered by > > an equally strong survival instinct. Men of course have strong rape > > fantasies as well. These often take the form of the woman he rapes > > realizing how wonderful he is and falling head over heels in love with him > > because he is such a great lover whether he actually is or not! > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 23, 2011, at 1:22 PM, Kristy McClain wrote: > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar is indeed correct.ÃÂ It can be "comforting"ÃÂ to believe that the > > incentive isÃÂ power--hatred of women and the like.ÃÂ But the evidence, > > and the report from rapists themselves, is that it is indeedÃÂ about > > sex.ÃÂ Though other factors co-exist.ÃÂ > > > ÃÂ > > > 10 years ago, i was moderating a rape-fantasy discussion board, as part of > > a training exercise.ÃÂ A clinical psychologistÃÂ in NY was running a > > group for male sex offenders who were in prison.ÃÂ We had many > > discussions on this, and the consenses wasÃÂ in agreement with this > > article.ÃÂ The psychologist running the group was--himselfÃÂ drawn > > toÃÂ theÃÂ act of rape as a sexual drive.ÃÂ He told me that the best > > gift his wife gave him was theÃÂ acceptance sheÃÂ offered him when he > > confessed this to her. SheÃÂ even offered to role-play a rape scene with > > him, but he refused.ÃÂ He told me that he felt it mightÃÂ get out of > > hand.ÃÂ > > > ÃÂ > > > ItsÃÂ easy to label these men asÃÂ ÃÂ monsters as a means toÃÂ deny > > their right to even exist.ÃÂ Brand them.ÃÂ Shun them.ÃÂ ÃÂ But they > > do exist, and have since the dawn of man.ÃÂ If we are all "one", we can > > only hope to healÃÂ if everyone is included in the process.ÃÂ > > > ÃÂ > > > I may hate child abusers.. but I remember that more often than not, they > > were abused too.ÃÂ > > > ÃÂ > > > btw..ÃÂ There are many, many females who have rape fantasies, as part of > > their erotic responses. > > > ÃÂ > > > Remember.. I recognize this is a polarizing topic.ÃÂ I'm not denying the > > experience rape has on unwilling females.ÃÂ I'm just offering another > > perspective because the only way to ever hope toÃÂ prevent or healÃÂ > > the problem, is to look at it with a clear mirror. > > > ÃÂ > > > Edgar, > > > ÃÂ > > > What does the data show on rape when it is doneÃÂ in countries as part of > > geneocide? > > > ÃÂ > > > Kristy > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 2/23/11, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Can A Buddha Harm Others? > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2011, 8:08 AM > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > Rape is primarily about satisfying sexual desire when it can't be achieved > > otherwise. Complete power over a woman can be a very strong aphrodisiac. > > Especially where violence or injury is involved it can also be combined > > with the man's desire for revenge against women for perceived psychological > > injury previously suffered at the hands of a woman or women in general by > > the rapist. > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 23, 2011, at 9:45 AM, ED wrote: > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Audrey - > > > Yours is an assertion that conforms to theÃÂ usual feminist > > position.ÃÂ It may be true or it may not. Has the truth of the assertion > > been confirmed by say neurophysiologists and neuropsychologists? > > > Thanks, ED > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "audreydc1983" <audreydc1983@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I will beg to differ on one point: Rape has little to do with sexual > > > desire. It is about power, control, and victimization. > > > > Those of us who believe sex is a natural product of lust, sexual desire, > > > and love often will assume that rape, since it is a sexual act, is > > > associated in some way with these feelings. > > > > This assumption couldn't be further from the truth. If there is any > > > desire in rape, it is the desire to control/victimize. > > > > > > > > ~Audrey > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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