Anthony, I do have some qualitications: I wear a lot of primary colors and mix plaids and stripes...Bill!
--- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > You don't qualify for a Tantric monk. > > Anthony > > --- On Fri, 25/2/11, Bill! <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > Subject: [Zen] Re: Can A Buddha Harm Others? > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, 25 February, 2011, 6:04 PM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > Edgar and Kristy, > > > > I'll jump in again just to say that I don't think sex is that big a driver > for men in general. It's not for me and it's not for most of the men I know. > It's certainly not enough of a drive to make me want to go out and force > myself on someone. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Kristy McClain <healthyplay1@> wrote: > > > > > > Edgar, > > > ÃÂ > > > I already knew that was what you meant.ÃÂ I understand that, and its true > > in many cases.ÃÂ But as I said, there are other opportunities for sexual > > satisfaction ourside of marriage, and many use them. > > > ÃÂ > > > My point is-- this is not a one-dimensional causal relationship.ÃÂ > > ButÃÂ I knowÃÂ that you recognize this. > > > ÃÂ > > > Have great day!ÃÂ ~ k~ > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 2/24/11, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Can A Buddha Harm Others? > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 12:25 PM > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kristy, > > > > > > > > > You misinterpret my words. Most western wives don't satisfy their man's > > deep natural psychological needs. That's what's important to inhibit rape. > > Just the fact that they provide boring sex simply isn't enough to keep a > > man from looking elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 24, 2011, at 2:01 PM, Kristy McClain wrote: > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > ÃÂ > > > Your conclusions here are simply not accurate.ÃÂ I agreed that sex is one > > of the factors t that motivate rape.ÃÂ But being sexually > > satisfiedÃÂ does not prevent rapes from occuring.ÃÂ Many, many rapists > > are married, and have sexual opportunities with other partners as well.ÃÂ > > Men have the option of seeking a sexual submissive, yet that does not > > influence the rapeÃÂ incidence.ÃÂ > > > ÃÂ > > > Your comments HERE do offer some insight: > > > ÃÂ > > > "they rape out of unsatisfied desires. If those desires are satisfied they > > would never become a rapist. But even a 'normal' man, under enough duress > > and unsatisfied desire may become a rapist given a situation" > > > ÃÂ > > > This is notÃÂ a rape forum, nor do I have the time to access the accurate > > research data to continue this discussion here, but I agree that menÃÂ > > often rape due to a combination of unfulfilled needs, their own > > narcississtic injuries, bio-chemical and psycho-dynamic processes, in > > addition to a desire for sexual release. > > > ÃÂ > > > WhileÃÂ I agree thatÃÂ it is an evolutionary trait,ÃÂ that doesn't > > meanÃÂ that we must accept it as is.ÃÂ It means that we have an > > obligation to work with these people, with a compassionate heart, in order > > to better understand how to re-direct their impulses, and find emotional > > and physical resolutions in a peacefulÃÂ way. > > > ÃÂ > > > Take care, > > > ÃÂ > > > Kristy > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 2/24/11, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Can A Buddha Harm Others? > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 5:00 AM > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > Hi Kristy, > > > > > > > > > I said "voluntarily" satisfy, not be a sex slave.... In other words if a > > man is loved and his desires satisfied by a woman who loves him, he doesn't > > have the need to become a rapist. > > > > > > > > > I think the hidden message here is that men aren't born rapists, they rape > > out of unsatisfied desires. If those desires are satisfied they would never > > become a rapist. But even a 'normal' man, under enough duress and > > unsatisfied desire may become a rapist given a situation in which he thinks > > he can get away with it. > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 23, 2011, at 9:26 PM, Kristy McClain wrote: > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > ÃÂ > > > I agree fully with your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs, but I disagree with part of > > what you say in the first, when you suggest that the cureÃÂ for a rapist, > > is to have a willing partner to satisfyÃÂ and indulge his sexual appetite > > and fantasiey, whenever he desires it.ÃÂ While i acknowledge thatÃÂ > > rape is indeed motivated in part, by sexual urges, it is not the > > completeÃÂ picture.ÃÂ I don't know if you followed the earlier thread > > wherein I discussed D/s and voluntary sexual submission /slavery? > > > ÃÂ > > > Having a sexual servant who provides fulfillment for every fantasy, no > > matter how dark or violent, does not seem to impact the rape stats, or the > > cases for SVU units.ÃÂ So there is more to this.ÃÂ This area is not my > > range of study or experience, butÃÂ clearly, there are other factors. > > > ÃÂ > > > Thanks, > > > ÃÂ > > > Kristy > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 2/23/11, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Can A Buddha Harm Others? > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2011, 1:56 PM > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > Kristy, > > > > > > > > > Good objective comments. Rape fantasies are indeed common among women, > > though of course these are invariably about really appealing lusty guys who > > won't take no for an answer rather than men that the woman isn't attracted > > to as may well be the case in actual rapes. The cure for rape is of course > > for the potential rapist to have a woman who satisfies all his desires > > voluntarily. If this is the case he has no need to go elsewhere on any > > terms. Unfortunately few women know how to provide this to a man. It's not > > just about providing ordinary sex, but fulfilling his deepest psychological > > needs as a man as well. > > > > > > > > > Throughout history rape has been quite common and everyone of us is almost > > certainly the descendant of one or more rapes in their ancestry.ÃÂ From an > > evolutionary perspective rape is quite natural and is an excellent strategy > > to maximize one's genetic legacy - if one can get away with it. As ED's > > article points out this is usually only the case in when the woman in > > question is not under the protection of male family members as is usually > > the case in traditional societies. In modern western societies the state > > has usurped male protection of women which makes them more vulnerable to > > rape. > > > > > > > > > Men were given a very strong natural desire to have sex with attractive > > women at almost any cost if they can manage it. The genes that give that > > impetus have been strengthened because such men tend to leave more > > descendants carrying those genes. Every man has at least some desire to > > rape women he can't get otherwise though that desire is usually tempered by > > an equally strong survival instinct. Men of course have strong rape > > fantasies as well. These often take the form of the woman he rapes > > realizing how wonderful he is and falling head over heels in love with him > > because he is such a great lover whether he actually is or not! > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 23, 2011, at 1:22 PM, Kristy McClain wrote: > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar is indeed correct.ÃÂ It can be "comforting"ÃÂ to believe that the > > incentive isÃÂ power--hatred of women and the like.ÃÂ But the evidence, > > and the report from rapists themselves, is that it is indeedÃÂ about > > sex.ÃÂ Though other factors co-exist.ÃÂ > > > ÃÂ > > > 10 years ago, i was moderating a rape-fantasy discussion board, as part of > > a training exercise.ÃÂ A clinical psychologistÃÂ in NY was running a > > group for male sex offenders who were in prison.ÃÂ We had many > > discussions on this, and the consenses wasÃÂ in agreement with this > > article.ÃÂ The psychologist running the group was--himselfÃÂ drawn > > toÃÂ theÃÂ act of rape as a sexual drive.ÃÂ He told me that the best > > gift his wife gave him was theÃÂ acceptance sheÃÂ offered him when he > > confessed this to her. SheÃÂ even offered to role-play a rape scene with > > him, but he refused.ÃÂ He told me that he felt it mightÃÂ get out of > > hand.ÃÂ > > > ÃÂ > > > ItsÃÂ easy to label these men asÃÂ ÃÂ monsters as a means toÃÂ deny > > their right to even exist.ÃÂ Brand them.ÃÂ Shun them.ÃÂ ÃÂ But they > > do exist, and have since the dawn of man.ÃÂ If we are all "one", we can > > only hope to healÃÂ if everyone is included in the process.ÃÂ > > > ÃÂ > > > I may hate child abusers.. but I remember that more often than not, they > > were abused too.ÃÂ > > > ÃÂ > > > btw..ÃÂ There are many, many females who have rape fantasies, as part of > > their erotic responses. > > > ÃÂ > > > Remember.. I recognize this is a polarizing topic.ÃÂ I'm not denying the > > experience rape has on unwilling females.ÃÂ I'm just offering another > > perspective because the only way to ever hope toÃÂ prevent or healÃÂ > > the problem, is to look at it with a clear mirror. > > > ÃÂ > > > Edgar, > > > ÃÂ > > > What does the data show on rape when it is doneÃÂ in countries as part of > > geneocide? > > > ÃÂ > > > Kristy > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 2/23/11, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Can A Buddha Harm Others? > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2011, 8:08 AM > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > Rape is primarily about satisfying sexual desire when it can't be achieved > > otherwise. Complete power over a woman can be a very strong aphrodisiac. > > Especially where violence or injury is involved it can also be combined > > with the man's desire for revenge against women for perceived psychological > > injury previously suffered at the hands of a woman or women in general by > > the rapist. > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 23, 2011, at 9:45 AM, ED wrote: > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Audrey - > > > Yours is an assertion that conforms to theÃÂ usual feminist > > position.ÃÂ It may be true or it may not. Has the truth of the assertion > > been confirmed by say neurophysiologists and neuropsychologists? > > > Thanks, ED > > > ÃÂ > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "audreydc1983" <audreydc1983@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I will beg to differ on one point: Rape has little to do with sexual > > > desire. It is about power, control, and victimization. > > > > Those of us who believe sex is a natural product of lust, sexual desire, > > > and love often will assume that rape, since it is a sexual act, is > > > associated in some way with these feelings. > > > > This assumption couldn't be further from the truth. If there is any > > > desire in rape, it is the desire to control/victimize. > > > > > > > > ~Audrey > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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