ED, IMNSHO you seem to be continually trying to force zen into a comfortable little box with which you are already familar - a box whose contents are bounded by differences, definitions, goals, achievements, values, etc...
Zen practice does not have any goals like 'enlightenment' and is not measured by achievements such as 'kensho', 'satori' or resolving a koan. A zen practicioner does not have any more value than a non-practicioner. All attributes such as these are projected onto zen by non-practicioners, or those who are wanting or trying or learning to be practicioners. Zen is very, very simple. There's nothing esoteric or mystical about it. In fact it's the most un-mystical and down-to-earth thing there can be. Zen is raw, unadulterated, unintrepeted, un-evaluated, pre-rationalized sensory experience. Zen is Just THIS! ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "ED" <seacrofter001@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > If one believes that after enlightenment a person is no different than > an unenlightened person, then of what value is becoming enlightened, > after all the time and effort devoted to getting there? Why report her > accomplishment? > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > ED, > > Why do you think her life should be an 'extra benefit to humankind'? > > > > --- In [email protected] > </group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=gPwi3ShAuaHWQww9u6tcybKnQgnOH_cR__rTKCSQR5\ > 0Q3ZL_Npn5m6nuI-_BcIm6eq27N7Ice61kW3PF5LHqeQs> , "ED" > <seacrofter001@> wrote: > > > > After that, of what extra benefit to humankind was her life? > > > > --- In [email protected] > </group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=gPwi3ShAuaHWQww9u6tcybKnQgnOH_cR__rTKCSQR5\ > 0Q3ZL_Npn5m6nuI-_BcIm6eq27N7Ice61kW3PF5LHqeQs> , mike brown > <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > > > I remember reading a book about an English woman who became a > Tibetan > > buddhist nun and went there to meditate in a cave for 3 years. When > she > > was first exposed to Buddhism she wrote that she cried with > frustration > > at not being able to understand the Zen literature she was exposed to. > > After her 3 years of solitary meditation, and many deep insights, she > > laughed with joy at how fun and obvious those previously obscure Zen > > koans and stories now were to her! > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
