K... I know that you don't welcome my responses but since your posting is send to the public zen forum then I consider to have all the right to give a response whether you like it or not and the same goes for you or anyone else. My critic to your easy: It's a well articulated English expressed on it but I'm afraid that has not much to do with zen. Nothing wrong with that as it was already expressed by some members the necessity of talking about any subject bringing entertainment to the mind and creating distraction in the forum. And everything is OK if that is what members want for as long as all that is not covered up and called zen. It's in here that I object to it. And I object because Science have nothing to do with zen. Science may help itself from zen but not on the other way round. You may like to know that Edgar has a group in which themes of Science are discussed. Edgar himself has written interesting articles in that field. Would you like to join his group and discuss your scientific and complementary findings?. Over there you will be meeting many people with your similar interests and having a beneficial feedback to your personal investigation in science. Take care Mayka --- On Sun, 13/3/11, Kristy McClain <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Kristy McClain <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Learning to See Consciously To: [email protected] Date: Sunday, 13 March, 2011, 1:14 Hi Edgar, ED, and all, Thanks Edgar, for posting this. Very interesting, and it helped me reflect back on my own experiences as they are still reflected today in my work and personal life. When ED wrote about stress as they relate to both expected and unexpected events -- like what has happened in Japan and New Zealand, I was struck by how "place" and 'stress" influences our health and our healing. While Mel & Mike are experiencing this first-hand, it is such events that make me think about how our "perception" literally and metaphorically shapes how we experience stress and how we heal from such events. I watched an interesting PBS program on the 'Science of Healing'. Having worked with stress manangement in many venues, I found many of the point made in the program to be particularly insightful. My own life is often filled with long hours and unpredictable circumstances, so I found it useful in guiding my inner awareness. The premise is "Can "place" make you sick? If so-- can it also heal? This led to a trend in what is called "evidenced-based design" that is influencing hospital and care centers around the world. As Edgar's article points out-- how and what we see, creates our experience of it. For example, living in a structure that is near trees is associated with less psychological aggression, less violent behavior, greater neighborly association and mutual responsiveness. So the next question is, "How" does being with nature heal and /or soothe? A study done some time ago, (i don't recall the details), but it assigned patients who had the same type of surgery to rooms in a hospital. Some had a view of a brick wall from their window. The others had a view of a tree outside. They controlled for all other variables--(same nurses, food, temperature, and so on). The patients with the view of a tree left the hospital sooner, had fewer complications, required less pain medication, and other positive outcomes. While all our sensory skills are involved, (and this isn't meant to be sensory neuro-science here), but to examine how we perceive things --does indeed shape our experience of it, which does circle back to zen. So to discuss what we see-- we can break it down so we can "test' what is the salient factors involved. Is it pattern, color, light and so on. There is a place in the brain that recognizes beautiful views. Known as the parahippocampal cortex. Recognition of a beautiful view cuts across all cultures and ages. This is where we are indeed--all one. When we look at a beautiful nature scene, initially --it is perceived (n the visual cortex), as a lined drawing--sort-of like a child's coloring book before they add the crayons. But the brain is a great animator. As the image moves fwd in the brain, it adds color, movement, light, depth. Moreover, there is an increase in the desity of the opioid receptors that "peak" in the parahippocampal cortex. (So-- you're sort-of 'drunk' on the vision. (So if ladies here want a monogamous partner--just have his parahippocampal cortex removed;) Actually, it is posited that a woman's body is perceived as exceptionally beautiful - because of the symetry of her curves. (Breasts, waist, hips, buttocks, thighs and legs). If nothing else, you now have a new piece of trivia;) But returning to zen-- "pattern" has a distinct footprint in zen, and in visual perception. Looking at the Japanese Zen Garden (Ryoanji Temple in Kyoto, many have wondered about the meaning of the pattern of stones there. Chris-- are you with us;) Here is the "fractal geometry" connection I mentioned to you. Using fractal geometry, they have identified the spot wherein if one stands there, they will experience a profound sense of peace and well-being. Again--symetry. It is the spot yogis and spiritually-enlightened beings have identified themselves -- for centuries. So yes--one does not need science to find this spot, but having scientists discover this, helps us understand how we perceive internal well-being, via our sensory experience. To then replicate such experiences, thereby bringing more harmony and peace for all. What are fractals? Fractals are repeating geometries that are identical at every scale. Think of veins in a leaf-- leaves on a twig-- twigs on a branch-- branch on a trunk and so on.. The same thing occurs in your cardiovascular or pulmonary systems and the like. These patterns exist in nature --or I would argue--in all creation. I've enjoyed the music thread here. Music is a great example of how people are attracted to differing types of the fractal patterns in musical categories. "Color" is a bit harder to test. Its well known that blues /greens are calming. Red /yellows are stimulating. There is a evolutionary theory that this is in our genes. Blues /greens were a set trait from the beginning, but the response to red/ yellows may well have come on-line much later-- possibly when primates began eating fruit. "Light" has a long association with health benefits, to include effectively treating seasonal affective disorders (SAD), and influencing bio-markers for depression. There are studies in Italy and Canada that demonstrate positive responses in bi-polar and major depressive disorders. So-- in sum, "Place" can make us sick or help us heal. It helps shape our behavior and emotions. We all know this, as its much easier to behave and interpret events, thoughts, self and others wisely and clearly when in our own "cushioned" and crafted environment. Much easier to be a holy man on the top of a mountain-type thing. But living in a world wherein we are confronted daily with stressors, distractions, suffering--sometimes understanding how we experience our environment, can help in choosing our responses to it. In my capacity as a health provider, helping others experience less suffering and more peace of spirit and even joy-- makes these findings very helpful. Recognizing that the above will not interest most here, I do want to say here that Esther Sternburg, MD discusses this with sincere devotion, and I am grateful to her for her tutelage in the above.. My best to all, Kristy Learning to see consciouslyMarch 9th, 2011 in Medicine & Health / Neuroscience Training for conscious perception: A. Subjects are presented with geometric forms in rapid succession. After 10 milliseconds the forms were masked to render them invisible. The task of the subjects was to judge their visibility. B. Location of form and mask on the screen. C. A square and a diamond serve as the visual cues, a star as a mask. Credit: PNAS Early Edition, doi: 10.1073/pnas.1009147108 Our brains process many more stimuli than we become aware of. Often images enter our brain without being noticed: visual information is being processed, but does not reach consciousness, that is, we do not have an impression of it. Then, what is the difference between conscious and unconscious perception, and can both forms of perception be changed through practice? These questions are important not only for basic research, but also for the treatment of patients with perceptual deficits due to brain lesions e.g. following a stroke. Scientists at the MPI for Brain Research in Frankfurt/Main could now show that seeing can be trained. Their tests revealed that the brain regions underlying the learning effects on conscious perception are different than the ones underlying the learning effects on the mere processing of stimuli. Visual stimuli undergo a series of processing stages on their journey from the eye to the brain. How conscious perception can arise from the activity of neurons is one of the mysteries that the neurophysiologists at the MPI for Brain Research seek to solve. “Today, we know that the processing of stimuli in the cortex remains extremely plastic, or malleable, even in adults,” explains Caspar Schwiedrzik who investigates the neural mechanisms of visual perception with his Max Planck colleagues Wolf Singer and Lucia Melloni. In their current study, the scientists examined whether perception can be influenced by long-term and systematic training and whether such training does not only change the processing, but also affects whether the stimulus can be consciously perceived. It is known from clinical studies that some stroke patients who suffer partial blindness as a result of damage to the visual cortex can discriminate between stimuli that fall into their blind visual field. This unconscious discrimination ability can be improved through training. Nevertheless, the patients report that they do not see the images. In a few cases, however, conscious perception of the stimuli could be improved with training. Is it maybe possible to learn to “see consciously”? To investigate this question in healthy subjects, the Frankfurt scientists developed an experimental set up with which different learning effects on perception could be measured. The subjects were shown images of two different geometric forms – a square and a diamond – on a screen in rapid succession and in a random sequence, and were asked to discriminate between them. The visibility of the images was limited by presenting a mask shortly after each image, which rendered the shape invisible. The experiment was designed such that the subjects could initially not discriminate between the images and that they were also subjectively invisible. The subjects were then trained for several days. Each round of the training involved the presentation of images followed by the mask. As soon as the subject indicated by pressing a button which form had been shown and how clearly he or she had seen the form, the next stimulus and the next mask were shown. This process was repeated 600 times per day. After several days, the subjects could better discriminate between the target stimuli. From the ratings of the visibility of the stimuli, the scientists could further conclude that the participants’ subjective perception had increased as well: the images now entered consciousness. Thus, the scientists succeeded in demonstrating that it is also possible to learn to see consciously. The question remained, however, as to how objective and not necessarily conscious processing of stimuli and their subjective, conscious perception are linked. To gain a better understanding of the individual processing steps and to localize them in the brain, the experiment was repeated once more. This time, the image and mask were shown on a different part of the screen, and were thus processed by a different part of the brain. “The results were revealing,” explains Lucia Melloni: “While the learning effect for the pure processing of the stimuli, that is the discrimination of the shape, was lost with the spatial rearrangement of the stimuli, the clearer visibility of the images, that is the learning effect in terms of conscious seeing, remained.” Therefore, objective processing and subjective perception of the stimuli seem to be less closely linked than previously assumed. The two training effects appear to be based on two different areas of the brain. “Our experiments have shown that the neuronal processes that underlie conscious perception are very flexible,” Schwiedrzik concludes. The findings provide important insights for medical applications, in particular for the rehabilitation of people suffering from perceptual deficits caused by brain lesions. More information: Caspar M. Schwiedrzik, et al. Subjective and objective learning effects dissociate in space and in time. PNAS Early Edition, doi:10.1073/pnas.1009147108 Provided by Max-Planck-Gesellschaft "Learning to see consciously." March 9th, 2011. http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-consciously.html Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: New Members 2 Visit Your Group Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .
