Steve,

Thanks, I'll read them and get back to you. In the meantime tho, how do you 
explain the examples of determinism I gave below and how does the quantum apply?

Mike





________________________________
From: SteveW <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 4 April, 2011 2:21:44
Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better a Roulette

  


--- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote:
>
> Steve,
> 
> I'm not so sure that science has proven false the idea that all phenomena are 
> strictly determined. I think the jury is still out on that one. It's true 
> that 

> what happens in the micro, quantum world is random and unpredictable, but not 
>so 
>
> in the macro-universe. Determinism seems to play a major role in life. Take a 
> look at environmental determinism. The cultural life of mountain people, 
> being 

> shaped by the mountains, is different from the culture of fishing villages, 
> being shaped by close proximity to the sea. Culture itself plays a key role 
> in 

> determining the social and psychological life of an individual. Likewise, 
> being 
>
> 6ft 2 and 200lbs it is highly unlikely I'll ever be a horse jockey. Also, 
> isn't 
>
> it one of the core tenents of Zen/emptiness that there is no object or 
>phenomena 
>
> that is self-created and independent - everything is interdependent? 
> Speaking 
>
> for myself, I have no fixed position on these questions. I do believe, 
>however, 
>
> there is a difference in determinism and self-determinism (as opposed to 
> predestination) and we do make choices (freewill) that can influence the 
>future.
> 
> Mike 
> 
> Hi Mike. Although science is always provisional, the weight of actual 
>experimental evidence is against hard determinism. This is why Einstein, who 
>was 
>a determinist, hated Quantum Mechanics. But Einstein was proven wrong by the 
>Aspect experiment, which has been verified numerous times since then. The idea 
>that quantum indeterminacy does not affect macro events has been increasingly 
>discredited by recent experiments.I have a particular interest in the 
>philosophical implications of Quantum Mechanics and have studied the matter 
>for 
>several decades. Here are two links to articles that may be of interest. They 
>are brief and aimed at the layman. 
>
Steve
http://pjmazumdar.wordpress.com/2010/01/15/randomness-vs-determinism/

http://pjmazumdar.wordpress.com/2010/01/15/randomness-vs-determinism-part2/
>


 

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