Bill, I think you mean to have me forward messages to your private email address outside the forum, but I don't remember yours. Please provide. Anthony
--- On Mon, 18/4/11, Bill! <[email protected]> wrote: From: Bill! <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Attachment to dharma cc Bill To: [email protected] Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 10:11 AM Anthony, I've also noticed some strange happenings from time-to-time vis-a-vis email-handling of Yahoo! posts. In trying to research some of these I've never discovered WHY the things I was reasearching occurred, but they always just 'fixed themselves' sooner or later. To try to help you research this I'd need more information: - what mailbox service are you using? (Yahoo!, POP/POP3 server, ...?) - what email application are you using? (Yahoo!, MS Outlook/Outlook Express, Mac, ...?) - what SPAM detection application are you using? (Yahoo!, MS Outlook/Outlook Express, Mac, SpamArrest, ...?) ...and I'd need you to foward me at least one each of an expample of a Yahoo! Zen Forum email that came to your INBOX and SPAM Folder. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > Bill, >  > My following post, as well as some others, went to my 'spam' folder. But > others survived and showed up in the inbox. >  > I don't understand the operation of Yahoo system. >  > Anthony > > --- On Mon, 18/4/11, Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > > From: Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Attachment to dharma > To: [email protected] > Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 6:24 AM > > >  > > > > > > > > > JM, >  > I am glad you don't take offense. I believe your Heart Chan is a good > practice. But whether or not it is 'uniquely suitable for me' is another > matter. It does not help to keep putting labels on me. We had better review > what the Diamond Sutra says: >  > åº"æ— æ‰€ä½�而ç"Ÿå…¶å¿ƒ >  > You should develop a mind which does not abide in anything. >  > Remember 'xin' is 'mind' here. >  > Anthony > > --- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> wrote: > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Attachment to dharma > To: [email protected] > Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 9:47 PM > > >  > > Hi Anthony, > > No worries. I don't take offense. :-) > > Words are confusing only if your heart is closed. Words are confusing only if > you interpret them in one particular way. You are confused because you are > thinking. No thinking. No confuse. > > We use Heart so that it is much easier to learn our practice than two kinds > of mind. Get it? I am not saying that you are wrong. I am just saying > that I have witnessed that using heart is a more effective way to stop > thinking and judging. It is quite evident in your case. > > Anthony, words are maya. Please either sit down and let your heart shine > through. > > The more I write you, the more I sense that our practice of Heart Chan is > uniquely suitable to you. > JM > Be Enlightened In This Life - We > ALL Can > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > http://www.heartchan.org > > On 4/17/2011 2:23 AM, Anthony Wu wrote: >  > > > > > > > JM, >  > You say, 'you are studying the Zen with your conscious mind'. Now you have > started to use 'mind', instead of 'conscious heart'. >  > As long as we have not become a Buddha, we need to use words. Your teacher > uses a lot of words, as did Sakyamuni. Words should not lead to confusion. >  > What is the Chinese word for 'mind'? >  > If you take offense, you don't have to answer, and I apologize in advance. >  > anthony > > > --- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> wrote: > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> > Subject: [Zen] Attachment to dharma > To: [email protected] > Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 2:05 PM > > >  > > Dear Anthony, > > You are so wrong.  So attached to dharma. 『法相ã€�。 I am > sorry. I don't like to comment how you think. But as Sodaiho Sensei > suggested, sometimes we need to talk like a blade. So here it goes..... > > > Terminology is describing the practice, but not the practice itself. > Terminology is describing the experience, but not the experience itself. > All formed practice is not the practice. > Diamond sutra said, "when see form as no form, then you see Buddha". Words > are form, Anthony. > I use heart because all we teach is a practice. And this practice begins > with the heart. At the end of the practice, the heart is gone, only a > certain synchronization remain. There is no heart, no mind, no nothing, no > label, no form, only chi, electricity and lights. We call that the realm of > ultimate truth. It is our way of teaching the practice. Unless you > practice this way, you will not witness these experiences. > > In other words, as said in all the sutra, words are for our convenience only > and they are not absolute.  I was repeated remind by my teacher, "Please > do not take notes. Do not memorize my words." Now I am asking you to do the > same. Because someday, I may just use mind, when I am awakened to it. :-) > > What is your experience about conscious mind and beginner's mind. Not > definition from someone else, but your personal experience. If you do not > have one than you are studying the Zen with your conscious mind. Or to be > blunt, you are attached to dharma. All these notions of yours are the > rising of your conscious mind attached to absolute dharma. That is our > teaching. Sorry, that's really Buddha's teaching, if I understand it > correctly. > > Please do not read my words. They are external to you. The answer to all > of your comments is within you. > > My words are meaningless unless you can sync to it with your heart. My > words are just one of many ways to reach enlightenment. By no means they are > the only way. > > If you don't like our way, please find your own way. However, if you are > interested to learn how we Sit Chan, I will be happy to send you a book free > of charge. > > Okay? > > All these time you utilized your valuable time to discuss with me about the > accuracy of translations. I appreciate your good will. Words are however > relative and context driven in the teaching that I have absorbed. > > Please don't be trapped by definitions of other people. Only trust your own > witness. > > JM > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > http://www.heartchan.org > > On 4/16/2011 9:01 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: >  > > > > > > > JM, >  > The terminology has nothing to do with what we practice. >  > One more question: how do you translate 'mind' into Chinese? >  > Anthony > > --- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> wrote: > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] The Three Dimensions of Release > To: [email protected] > Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 8:26 AM > > >  > > Hi Anthony, Thank you for your suggestion. When one day you practice the > same way as I do, having similar experience, then it's the time for us to > continue this subject. > > Okay? With respect, JM > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > http://www.heartchan.org > > On 4/16/2011 4:37 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: >  > > > > > > > JM, >  > Your teacher has a profound mind. But I disagree with your translation. In > modern English, 'heart' is used to refer to the physical organ, as well as > the thought associated with emotions and feelings. So to say he teaches you > about the heart is not to give him enough respect. >  > Yishi xin is conscious mind. >  > Ben xin is original mind, or maybe the beginner's mind. >  > Anthony > > --- On Sat, 16/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> wrote: > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] The Three Dimensions of Release > To: [email protected] > Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 9:55 PM > > >  > > Hi Anthony， > > Actually he never used the "mind" word. He always say we need to tune down > the 『æ„� è˜ å¿ƒã€� and let the 『本 心ã€� shine through. Or > translated literally into English, [original heart] and [conscious heart]. > > Let me know if you have more question. > JM >      > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > http://www.heartchan.org > > On 4/16/2011 2:35 AM, Anthony Wu wrote: >  > > > > > > > JM, >  > I believe all mental functions you mention can be included in the 'mind', but > 'chi' is not there. So roughly I think your 'heart' is 'mind' plus 'chi'. >  > You have not answered my question: what does your teacher say in Chinese when > he refers to 'heart' and 'mind'? >  > Anthony > > --- On Sat, 16/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> wrote: > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] The Three Dimensions of Release > To: [email protected] > Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 6:32 AM > > >  > > Somewhat Yes, Anthony. To be exact to our teaching, the Heart Chakra, is > what I usually refer to as the location of the "heart", which is not the > organic heart, nor is just an energy point. It is just the center of the > energy point. The Heart Chakra however is not the "heart" that I refer to > either. > > The Heart that I refer to is the collective feeling, sensing, wisdom, energy, > joy, sadness, etc. etc. our entire being, physiological, mental and > spiritual combined, unified, integrated into one, yet it is invisible and > formless. > > Let me ask you this, does the "mind" IYO, includes all of this or not? I > could be wrong, but I understand that the mind does not include all this. > > For instance, the Heart that I refer to definitely includes energy, or chi > and emotions. Does the mind include that? > > If not, then heart is the term communicates my experience more accurately. > > Well? > JM > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > http://www.heartchan.org > > On 4/15/2011 2:45 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: >  > > > > > > > JM, >  Without the heart pumping blood to the brain. The brain is dead.' >  > Equally correct is 'without a living brain, the heart can only pump blood for > a zombie, or for another person it is transplanted into.' >  > Since you pay attention to chakras, I suspect your 'heart' has to do with the > heart chakra, which Tantra considers an important center. Is it right? >  > Anthony > > --- On Fri, 15/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> wrote: > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] The Three Dimensions of Release > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, 15 April, 2011, 9:50 PM > > >  > > Yes, Anthony, no problem. The heart includes the mind. But the mind does > not contain the heart. As Daniel said, heart is the "grand central > station". Forget the Chinese definition, just feel it. :-) JM. > > Or, perhaps, think in physiological term. Without the heart pumping blood > to the brain. The brain is dead. > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > http://www.heartchan.org > > On 4/15/2011 6:05 AM, Anthony Wu wrote: >  > > > > > > > JMJM, >  > Don't think I am making trouble for you. I am just curious. On your part, you > have not 'conquered your terminology' either, because you keep enhancing the > 'heart' and disparaging the 'mind'. I am wondering what your teacher says in > Chinese referring to 'heart' and 'mind'. As far as I can see from my limited > knowledge, both are referred to in Chinese by 'xin'. In general, they are the > same, but sometimes they may mean different things. That is why I keep > asking. My question is not about terminology, but you say you have different > experiences with regard to the mind and the heart. Can you elaborate? >  > Anthony > > --- On Fri, 15/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> wrote: > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] The Three Dimensions of Release > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, 15 April, 2011, 7:53 AM > > >  > > Hi Anthony, > > I understand that you trying to discuss from a logic or definition of > words. I am not saying whether I am correct or wrong. At the beginning of > my journey I am like you. I struggle with these terms as well. As I said, > it took me six year to conquer my terminology. > > Actually, all my posts are from my experience. My experience like Daniel's > youtube is center in the heart and not in the brain. It is a whole body > experience. And this experience coincide more and more with my Teacher's > teaching as time passes. > > Don't mean to confuse you. I also like to say, in my states, there is no > mind and no heart, just chi, electricity and lights. The key point IMO, is > that state of kensho, satori, or even just Jhana can not sustained without > chi, which is labeled as vital energy by Daniel. > > Of course, my experience could also be labeled as maya by Bill. :-) > > It is not important what I say or experience. It is only important what you > experience. As you well know, Buddha said clearly in Diamond sutra that He > said NO dharma. > > Best, JM > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > http://www.heartchan.org > > On 4/14/2011 4:10 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: >  > > > > > > > JM, >  > What is 'mind'? What is 'heart'? What is the difference between 'mind' and > 'heart'? >  > Anthony > > --- On Fri, 15/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> wrote: > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] The Three Dimensions of Release > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, 15 April, 2011, 3:36 AM > > >  > > Wow, Thank you ED. I have watched the first one. > > HuangDi Neijing said it very clearly for 2,000 years, "Our Shen, or inner > divine, requires the support of Qi or Chi." > > Personally, having a high tech BG, it took me 6 years to wake up to the fact > that our Teaching is not about our mind. It is about our entire being. > And at the center of it, is our heart. > > That's my witness. Now there is someone else too. Thank you again, ED. > Lovely day today. > :-) > JM > > BTW, I was just informed that our version of Diamond Sutra is on youtube with > English subtitle. > http://www.youtube.com/joycedaolian#p/u/4/ROkmtB1fB8I > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > http://www.heartchan.org > > On 4/14/2011 10:25 AM, ED wrote: >  > >  > Mike, two more tapes by Empty_Grace. I experience this guy as knowing what > he is talking about. JM, he has good things to say about the Heart.  > --ED  > The Three Dimensions of Release > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejQsIFDrb4M&NR=1  Part 1 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-4Vw54Dabw&feature=related Part 2 >
