Anthony, I have many. You could use [email protected]. That's the one I use for the Zen Forum...Bill!
--- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > Bill, >  > I think you mean to have me forward messages to your private email address > outside the forum, but I don't remember yours. Please provide. >  > Anthony > > --- On Mon, 18/4/11, Bill! <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Attachment to dharma cc Bill > To: [email protected] > Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 10:11 AM > > >  > > > > Anthony, > > I've also noticed some strange happenings from time-to-time vis-a-vis > email-handling of Yahoo! posts. In trying to research some of these I've > never discovered WHY the things I was reasearching occurred, but they always > just 'fixed themselves' sooner or later. > > To try to help you research this I'd need more information: > - what mailbox service are you using? (Yahoo!, POP/POP3 server, ...?) > - what email application are you using? (Yahoo!, MS Outlook/Outlook Express, > Mac, ...?) > - what SPAM detection application are you using? (Yahoo!, MS Outlook/Outlook > Express, Mac, SpamArrest, ...?) > > ...and I'd need you to foward me at least one each of an expample of a Yahoo! > Zen Forum email that came to your INBOX and SPAM Folder. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > à> > My following post, as well as some others, went to my 'spam' folder. But > > others survived and showed up in the inbox. > > à> > I don't understand the operation of Yahoo system. > > à> > Anthony > > > > --- On Mon, 18/4/11, Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Anthony Wu <wuasg@> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Attachment to dharma > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 6:24 AM > > > > > > à> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JM, > > à> > I am glad you don't take offense. I believe your Heart Chan is a good > > practice. But whether or not it is 'uniquely suitable for me' is another > > matter. It does not help to keep putting labels on me. We had better review > > what the Diamond Sutra says: > > à> > åº"æâ" æâ°â¬Ã¤Â½ï¿½Ã¨â¬Å'ç"Ÿåâ¦Â¶Ã¥Â¿Æ' > > à> > You should develop a mind which does not abide in anything. > > à> > Remember 'xin' is 'mind' here. > > à> > Anthony > > > > --- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ <chan.jmjm@> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Attachment to dharma > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 9:47 PM > > > > > > à> > > > Hi Anthony, > > > > No worries.àI don't take offense.à:-) > > > > Words are confusing only if your heart is closed. Words are confusing only > > if you interpret them in one particular way.àYou are confused because > > you are thinking.àNo thinking.àNo confuse. > > > > We use Heart so that it is much easier to learn our practice than two kinds > > of mind.àGet it?àI am not saying that you are wrong.àI am just > > saying that I have witnessed that using heart is a more effective way to > > stop thinking and judging.àIt is quite evident in your case.à> > > > Anthony, words are maya.àPlease either sit down and let your heart > > shine through. > > > > The more I write you, the more I sense that our practice of Heart Chan is > > uniquely suitable to you. > > JM > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We > > ALL Can > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > On 4/17/2011 2:23 AM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > à> > > > > > > > > > > > > > JM, > > à> > You say, 'you are studying the Zen with your conscious mind'. Now you have > > started to use 'mind', instead of 'conscious heart'. > > à> > As long as we have not become a Buddha, we need to use words. Your teacher > > uses a lot of words, as did Sakyamuni. Words should not lead to confusion. > > à> > What is the Chinese word for 'mind'? > > à> > If you takeàoffense, you don't have to answer, and I apologize in > > advance. > > à> > anthony > > > > > > --- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ <chan.jmjm@> > > Subject: [Zen] Attachment to dharma > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 2:05 PM > > > > > > à> > > > Dear Anthony, > > > > You are so wrong.ààSo attached to dharma.à> > ãâ¬Å½Ã¦Â³â¢Ã§âºÂ¸Ã£â¬ï¿½Ã£â¬âàI am sorry.àI don't like to > > comment how you think.àBut as Sodaiho Sensei suggested, sometimes we > > need to talk like a blade.àSo here it goes..... > > > > > > Terminology is describing the practice, but not the practice itself.à> > Terminology is describing the experience, but not the experience itself. > > All formed practice is not the practice. > > Diamond sutra said, "when see form as no form, then you see Buddha". Words > > are form, Anthony. > > I use heart because all we teach is a practice.àAnd this practice > > begins with the heart.àAt the end of the practice, the heart is gone, > > only a certain synchronization remain.àThere is no heart, no mind, no > > nothing, no label, no form, only chi, electricity and lights.àWe call > > that the realm of ultimate truth.àIt is our way of teaching the > > practice.àUnless you practice this way, you will not witness these > > experiences. > > > > In other words, as said in all the sutra, words are for our convenience > > only and they are not absolute.ààI was repeated remind by my > > teacher, "Please do not take notes. Do not memorize my words."àNow I am > > asking you to do the same.àBecause someday, I may just use mind, when I > > am awakened to it.à:-) > > > > What is your experience about conscious mind and beginner's mind.àNot > > definition from someone else, but your personal experience. If you do not > > have one than you are studying the Zen with your conscious mind.àOr to > > be blunt, you are attached to dharma.àAll these notions of yours are > > the rising of your conscious mind attached to absolute dharma.àThat is > > our teaching.àSorry, that's really Buddha's teaching, if I understand > > it correctly. > > > > Please do not read my words.àThey are external to you.àThe answer > > to all of your comments is within you. > > > > My words are meaningless unless you can sync to it with your heart.àMy > > words are just one of many ways to reach enlightenment. By no means they > > are the only way.à> > > > If you don't like our way, please find your own way.àHowever, if you > > are interested to learn how we Sit Chan, I will be happy to send you a book > > free of charge. > > > > Okay? > > > > All these time you utilized your valuable time to discuss with me about the > > accuracy of translations.àI appreciate your good will.àWords are > > however relative and context driven in the teaching that I have absorbed. > > > > Please don't be trapped by definitions of other people.àOnly trust your > > own witness. > > > > JM > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > On 4/16/2011 9:01 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > à> > > > > > > > > > > > > > JM, > > à> > The terminology has nothing to do with what we practice. > > à> > One more question: how do you translate 'mind' into Chinese? > > à> > Anthony > > > > --- On Sun, 17/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ <chan.jmjm@> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] The Three Dimensions of Release > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 8:26 AM > > > > > > à> > > > Hi Anthony,àThank you for your suggestion.àWhen one day you > > practice the same way as I do, having similar experience, then it's the > > time for us to continue this subject. > > > > Okay?àWith respect, JM > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > On 4/16/2011 4:37 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > à> > > > > > > > > > > > > > JM, > > à> > Your teacher has a profound mind. But I disagree with your translation. In > > modern English, 'heart' is used to refer to the physical organ, as well as > > the thought associated with emotions and feelings. So to say he teaches you > > about the heart is not to give him enough respect. > > à> > Yishi xin is conscious mind. > > à> > Ben xin is original mind, or maybe the beginner's mind. > > à> > Anthony > > > > --- On Sat, 16/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ <chan.jmjm@> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] The Three Dimensions of Release > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 9:55 PM > > > > > > à> > > > Hi Anthonyï¼Å' > > > > Actually he never used the "mind" word.àHe always say we need to tune > > down the ãâ¬Å½Ã¦â� èÂË Ã¥Â¿Æ'ãâ¬ï¿½ and let the ãâ¬Å½Ã¦Å"¬ > > å¿Æ'ãâ¬ï¿½ shine through.àOr translated literally into English, > > [original heart] and [conscious heart].à> > > > Let me know if you have more question. > > JM > > ààààà> > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > On 4/16/2011 2:35 AM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > à> > > > > > > > > > > > > > JM, > > à> > I believe all mental functions you mention can be included in the 'mind', > > but 'chi' is not there. So roughly I think your 'heart' is 'mind' plus > > 'chi'. > > à> > You have not answered my question: what does your teacher say in Chinese > > when he refers to 'heart' and 'mind'? > > à> > Anthony > > > > --- On Sat, 16/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ <chan.jmjm@> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] The Three Dimensions of Release > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Saturday, 16 April, 2011, 6:32 AM > > > > > > à> > > > Somewhat Yes, Anthony.àTo be exact to our teaching, the Heart Chakra, > > is what I usually refer to as the location of the "heart", which is not the > > organic heart, nor is just an energy point.àIt is just the center of > > the energy point.àThe Heart Chakra however is not the "heart" that I > > refer to either. > > > > The Heart that I refer to is the collective feeling, sensing, wisdom, > > energy, joy, sadness, etc. etc.àour entire being, physiological, mental > > and spiritual combined, unified, integrated into one, yet it is invisible > > and formless. > > > > Let me ask you this, does the "mind" IYO, includes all of this or not?à> > I could be wrong, but I understand that the mind does not include all this. > > > > For instance, the Heart that I refer to definitely includes energy, or chi > > and emotions.àDoes the mind include that? > > > > If not, then heart is the term communicates my experience more accurately. > > > > Well? > > JM > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > On 4/15/2011 2:45 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > à> > > > > > > > > > > > > > JM, > > àWithout the heart pumping blood to the brain.àThe brain is dead.' > > à> > Equally correct is 'without a living brain, the heart can only pump blood > > for a zombie, or for another person it is transplanted into.' > > à> > Since you pay attention to chakras, I suspect your 'heart' has to do with > > the heart chakra, which Tantra considers an important center. Is it right? > > à> > Anthony > > > > --- On Fri, 15/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ <chan.jmjm@> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] The Three Dimensions of Release > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Friday, 15 April, 2011, 9:50 PM > > > > > > à> > > > Yes, Anthony, no problem.àThe heart includes the mind.àBut the mind > > does not contain the heart.àAs Daniel said, heart is the "grand central > > station".àForget the Chinese definition, just feel it.à:-)àJM. > > > > Or, perhaps, think in physiological term.àWithout the heart pumping > > blood to the brain.àThe brain is dead. > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > On 4/15/2011 6:05 AM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > à> > > > > > > > > > > > > > JMJM, > > à> > Don't think I am making trouble for you. I am just curious. On your part, > > you have not 'conquered your terminology' either, because you keep > > enhancing the 'heart' and disparaging the 'mind'. I am wondering what your > > teacher says in Chinese referring to 'heart' and 'mind'. As far as I can > > see from my limited knowledge, both are referred to in Chinese by 'xin'. In > > general, they are the same, but sometimes they may mean different things. > > That is why I keep asking. My question is not about terminology, but you > > say you have different experiences with regard to the mind and the heart. > > Can you elaborate? > > à> > Anthony > > > > --- On Fri, 15/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ <chan.jmjm@> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] The Three Dimensions of Release > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Friday, 15 April, 2011, 7:53 AM > > > > > > à> > > > HiàAnthony, > > > > I understand that you trying to discuss from a logic or definition of > > words.àI am not saying whether I am correct or wrong.àAt the > > beginning of my journey I am like you.àI struggle with these terms as > > well.àAs I said, it took me six year to conquer my terminology. > > > > Actually, all my posts are from my experience.àMy experience like > > Daniel's youtube is center in the heart and not in the brain.àIt is a > > whole body experience.àAnd this experience coincide more and more with > > my Teacher's teaching as time passes.à> > > > Don't mean to confuse you.àI also like to say, in my states, there is > > no mind and no heart, just chi, electricity and lights.àThe key point > > IMO, is that state of kensho, satori, or even just Jhana can not sustained > > without chi, which is labeled as vital energy by Daniel. > > > > Of course, my experience could also be labeled as maya by Bill.à:-) > > > > It is not important what I say or experience.àIt is only important what > > you experience.àAs you well know, Buddha said clearly in Diamond sutra > > that He said NO dharma. > > > > Best,àJM > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > On 4/14/2011 4:10 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > à> > > > > > > > > > > > > > JM, > > à> > What is 'mind'? What is 'heart'? What is the difference between 'mind' and > > 'heart'? > > à> > Anthony > > > > --- On Fri, 15/4/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ <chan.jmjm@> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] The Three Dimensions of Release > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Friday, 15 April, 2011, 3:36 AM > > > > > > à> > > > Wow,àThank you ED.àI have watched the first one.à> > > > HuangDi Neijing said it very clearly for 2,000 years, "Our Shen, or inner > > divine, requires the support of Qi or Chi." > > > > Personally, having a high tech BG, it took me 6 years to wake up to the > > fact that our Teaching is not about our mind.àIt is about our entire > > being.àAnd at the center of it, is our heart. > > > > That's my witness.àNow there is someone else too.àThank you again, > > ED.àLovely day today. > > :-) > > JM > > > > BTW, I was just informed that our version of Diamond Sutra is on youtube > > with English subtitle.à> > http://www.youtube.com/joycedaolian#p/u/4/ROkmtB1fB8I > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > On 4/14/2011 10:25 AM, ED wrote: > > à> > > > à> > Mike,àtwo more tapes by Empty_Grace. I experience this guy as knowing > > what he is talking about. JM, he has good things to say about the > > Heart.àà--EDàà> > The Three Dimensions of Release > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejQsIFDrb4M&NR=1ààPart 1 > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-4Vw54Dabw&feature=relatedàPart 2 > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
