Siska, You posted the question:
> In your example of tasting peach below, I wonder how one would describe the > experience without any concepts. This dilemma is the fundamental challenge of zen and the origin of all koans! Buddha Nature is a state devoid of rationality, intellectualization and concepts, so how do you describe it or try to communicate it when the usual manner of communication (speech/writing) is based on concepts? You could try a less rational form of commnication like art - poetry, painting, music, etc... Zen masters try to use their whole being as an non-rational medium of communictaion when asked questions like 'Does a dog have a Buddha Nature?' or 'What is Buddha Nature?'. I'm sure you've read enough koans to know what some of their responses were. Maybe a good koan for you would be 'What is a peach?'. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], siska_cen@... wrote: > > Hi Bill, Ed, > > In my 'experience', what we take as our experience is also muddled with our > concepts. It is not the experience as is. As we describe the experience, it > is within our frame of reference. > > In your example of tasting peach below, I wonder how one would describe the > experience without any concepts. > > siska > -----Original Message----- > From: "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 02:05:57 > To: <[email protected]> > Reply-To: [email protected] > Subject: [Zen] Re: Questions > > ED, > > The way I was using the word in my post below 'experience' is sensory > awareness. In more coarser words it is anything you see, feel, hear, touch > or taste. > > I used the word 'experience' in my post below to contrast with the word > 'explain'. > > In that sense, 'experiences' are made up of sensory sensations in contrast to > 'explanations' which are made up of concepts. > > An example would be describing the taste of a ripe peach (experience) in > contrast to explaining how the sugars and acids of the peach excite your > taste buds and then transmit electical impulses to different areas of your > brain which are translated into concepts (like 'good') by your discriminating > mind. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], "ED" <seacrofter001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > What are 'experiences' and what are not 'experiences'? > > > > Thanks, ED > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected] > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=4f9XRg1jUQkxrPFD0f0\ > > ZldCR1MGlncMtcJN366lunTJFuhFBsRYXt1OsSdl2cwHDdn0PuzgDZi_BsgV63wMY> , > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > Anthony, > > > > > > ED's concepts are not too complicated. If you want to engage with him > > or anyone else in an intellectual discussion you're going to have to > > employ concepts. I just think having an intellectual discussion about > > zen is about as useful as investigating quantum mechanics using Tarot > > cards. In each case you're just not employing the righ tool for the job. > > > > > > ED, in my opinion, doesn't DESCRIBE his experiences, he tries to > > EXPLAIN things - and usually they aren't even HIS explanations, they are > > someone elses (like a link to some other person's explanation). Most of > > the time ED does not even indicate if he agrees or disagress with the > > link to which he's pointing us. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
