Anthony, Yes, you're correct. Buddha left no writings. Everything we have telling us about his teachings have been written by others, and some of it many hundreds of years after the fact. I guess empty0grace would say that all these writings are 'just the opinion' of the authors. And with that I'd agree.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > It is consensus among modern Buddhist scholars that the flower sermon, as > well as most of the mahayana (Diamond Sutra etc) and vajrayana sutras, were > made up by people after Buddha's death. So Buddha, during his lifetime in > this human world, never uttered those words or performed those acts. >From > the historical perspective, they are all 'lies'. However, for the purpose of > 'awakening' people, they may be 'true'. So if Bill forms a wild fox club to > defend the latter theory, I will try to apply for the founding membership. >  > Anthony > > --- On Mon, 30/5/11, ED <seacrofter001@...> wrote: > > > From: ED <seacrofter001@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, zen and Theravada Buddhism > To: [email protected] > Date: Monday, 30 May, 2011, 10:46 PM > > >  > > > > > >  > --- In [email protected], Bill wrote: > > > > Mike, > > > > Theravada is Buddha's original teaching? I'll bet you already know I think > > Buddha's original teaching is just holding up a flower at Vulture Peak. > > > ...Bill! >  > Bill, > May be 'Yes', may be 'No'. > See below. > --ED >  >  > THE FLOWER SERMON > > Toward the end of his life, the Buddha took his disciples to a quiet pond for > instruction. As they had done so many times before, the Buddha's followers > sat in a small circle around him, and waited for the teaching. > But this time the Buddha had no words. He reached into the muck and pulled up > a lotus flower. And he held it silently before them, its roots dripping mud > and water. > The disciples were greatly confused. Buddha quietly displayed the lotus to > each of them. In turn, the disciples did their best to expound upon the > meaning of the flower: what it symbolized, and how it fit into the body of > Buddha's teaching. > When at last the Buddha came to his follower Mahakasyapa, the disciple > suddenly understood. He smiled and began to laugh. Buddha handed the lotus to > Mahakasyapa and began to speak. > "What can be said I have said to you," smiled the Buddha, "and what cannot be > said, I have given to Mahakashyapa." > Mahakashyapa became Buddha's successor from that day forward. >  > "Background to the Flower Sutra > The Flower Sutra is a sutra in the Zen (or Chan) tradition of Mahayana > Buddhism. It's earliest versions date from the 11th century. > Zen Buddhism stresses wordless insight more than most other types of > Buddhism. This sutra exemplifies that very well. > In many versions of this sutra the Buddha doesn't walk around, he merely > holds up the Lotus, roots and all, to a group of disciples. Most disciples > are confused. > Mahakashyapa smiles. > To Zen Buddhists this sutra shows the origins of the wordless teachings of > Zen - its history started with the Buddha himself. " > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/tibet/flower-sermon.htm >  >  > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
