Anthony, I'd go even further with your statement below that "...most mahayana literature was compiled hundreds of years after Buddha's demise. That does not mean the articles do not conform to Buddhism."
These writing ARE Buddhism. These writings and others like them are what CREATED and now DEFINES Buddhism. Buddhism was not created or defined by Siddartha Buddha. It was created and defined by his followers. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > We have to follow 'reasonable speculation'. There is a concensus among > Buddhist scholars that says most mahayana literature was compiled hundreds of > years after Buddha's demise. That does not mean the articles do not conform > to Buddhism. Some of them are excellent presentations. As regards Diamond > Sutra's insistence that the Buddha claims he did not utter a word, it means > something profound. However, we should use it with care. The other theory is > mahayana inference that nivarna is not different from samsara. That also has > a profound meaning. >  > Over the past hundreds of years, the media has started to record events, > which makes us believe they did happen. But how about a few thousands years > ago? Do you deny the existence of alexander the Great, Jesus, Aristotle, > Confucious etc? >  > Anthony > > --- On Tue, 21/6/11, Guy <anatmansurf@...> wrote: > > > From: Guy <anatmansurf@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why Practice Chan? > To: [email protected] > Date: Tuesday, 21 June, 2011, 12:33 PM > > >  > > > > > OK, you think that or you know that? > > It's speculation. Unless you were there you could never know what the man > said. > > Guy > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > JM, > > à> > Buddha never denied he ever said a word. It is the author of the Diamond > > Sutra, who was born 1,000 years after Buddha's demise, that says that. > > à> > Please also regard what I just said as no value. > > à> > Anthony > > > > --- On Tue, 21/6/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ <chan.jmjm@> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Why Practice Chan? > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Tuesday, 21 June, 2011, 7:43 AM > > > > > > à> > > > > > > > Hi Anthony, > > > > Every word I posted is form.àThere is no value in them.àDon't take > > them too seriously.à> > > > Especially those from Buddha, because he denied that he ever said a word. > > > > Okay? > > > > Talk to you next week... > > Learn the Basics of Chan Meditation... > > http://www.chan-meditation.org > > Chan in everyday life... > > http://www.chanliving.org > > To be enlightened in this life... > > http://www.heartchan.org > > To save our world... > > http://www.universal-oneness.org > > > > > > On 6/20/2011 3:57 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: > > à> > > > > > > > > > > > > > JM, > > à> > Thank you for your post. It is interesting. I have no doubt that Heart Chan > > is a good practice that gives you happiness and good health. However, some > > of the ideology is away from Buddhism. For instance, the following from the > > posted article: > > à> > spirits are eternal > > à> > Buddhism says nothing is eternal. When our lives end and we reincarnate > > into a different entities, it is the everchanging 5 skandhas of ours that > > are on the journey. They are not the same 'spirits'. > > à> > It is an absolute practice liberating our spirit, terminating our > > reincarnation, and living in Buddha's bright lights forever. > > à> > Buddha teaches us there is no 'self'. Than who is going to live in Buddhs's > > bright lights forever? > > à> > Please note I am not trying to stop you practicing heart Chan. If you > > benefit really and are happy, why not continue? I just want to point out > > the 'points of deviation', while not attempting to say, 'this is the only > > truth, while the rest are neither false or subordinate to the truth. > > à> > I hope to see more of your posts. Thank you for your kindheartedness. > > à> > Anthony > > à> > à> > à> > à> > > > > > --- On Tue, 21/6/11, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ <chan.jmjm@> > > Subject: [Zen] Why Practice Chan? > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Tuesday, 21 June, 2011, 2:13 AM > > > > > > à> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This email contains graphics, so if you don't see them, view it in your > > browser. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Buy This Book To Get Started!($14.99) > > > > > > > > > > > > Learn Chan Meditation online! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friend, > > > > Please visit our new web site.àIt empowers you to participates with us > > online.àJust click here or click on our header at the top.àDo let > > us know how you like it.àOkay?àThank you. > > > > Below is a talk from our enlightened Chan Master Wu Jue Miao Tian for your > > reference. > > > > > > > > Why Practice Chan? > > > > > > > > The purpose of practicing Chan is to establish a place for our life after > > death. > > Why practice Chan?àWhat is its purpose? From a religious point of view, > > whether it is Protestant, Catholicism, Buddhism or Islam, the common > > emphasis is to ferry our spirit.àJesus said that "Believe in me, you > > shall live forever!" Buddhism teaches the attainment of Buddhahood. How do > > we obtain everlasting life and land in heaven? Practicing Chan is the > > answer. > > Through out our life, most of us seek fame, fortune, political power, > > etc.àCan we keep them after our death? What we really need to seek is a > > place for our afterlife.àThis way, we will not panic when our time > > comes to an end.àThis is the real purpose of practicing Chan.à> > Though we probably don't know where we were from, we should at least be > > clear about where we will be going.àAt the least, we should have some > > control of our destiny.àIn Buddhism, the end game is enlightenment. > > Surpass our physical lives and terminate reincarnation > > When we are alive, through our senses, we could be pretty sure that we are > > living in a material world.àHowever, this is not the world of our > > spirit.àWhen our lives come to an end, where will our spirit be going? > > What do we know about the spiritual world? > > According to Buddhism, there are ten spiritual realms.àFrom top down, > > they are Buddha, Bodhisattva, Sravaka, Pratyeka, Deity, human, Asura, > > Animal, Hungry Ghost and Hell.àThe realms below "human" contains mostly > > sufferings and disasters.àThe lower the realm, the worse the conditions > > are.àThe only way for us not to be in these realms is to practice Chan, > > purifying the karma from our previous lives, so that our spirit could be > > elevated to a higher realm.àPerhaps even possible to be landed in the > > realm of Buddha or Bodhisattva, if we practice Chan with dedication. > > In other words, spirits are eternal. When our body die, our spirit will > > journey to a spiritual realm corresponding to the merits or karma > > accumulated throughout our lives.àTherefore, when we die, it is not the > > end.àIt is just another beginning.àThis is the "judgment" as > > labeled by Christians and the "reincarnation" by Buddhist. > > On the other hand, practicing Chan enhances our spiritual purity.àIf > > majority of the people has purer spiritual quality, the society would be in > > general more peaceful and harmonious.àFor the first fifty years in > > Taiwan, though we had little material wealth, but we were generally happy > > and content. Different from nowadays, our society is filled with murder, > > violence, incest, etc. These are indications of being in those realms below > > "human".àIt is urgent for us to practice Chan as soon as possible.à> > Otherwise, there will be more natural disasters and man-made miseries. If > > war ever breaks out, we will be in the realm of hungry ghost and hell. > > Liberate our spirit into everlasting joy > > Simply, the purpose of the Chan practice is to be enlightened in this > > life.àSome people may have difficulty in believing that.àSuch > > disbelief is usually resulted from thinking or analyzing with our physical > > human brain.àShakyamuni is as much a human as any of us.àAfter six > > years of searching as an ascetic and six years of meditation under a Bodhi > > tree.àShakyamuni liberated his spirit from his body and his > > consciousness, and ultimately attained Buddhahood.àExemplified by his > > journey, he taught everyone of us, that we all could be enlightened > > also.àWe all possess Buddha nature.àJust have to practice the > > authentic lineage Chan. > > What is an authentic lineage practice?àIt is an absolute practice > > liberating our spirit, terminating our reincarnation, and living in > > Buddha's bright lights forever.àIt is a practice enabling us to surpass > > the three realms of "Desire, Form and Formlessness". Desire is the > > hindrance of our consciousness. Form is the hindrance of our physical > > body.àFormlessness is the hindrance of our karma hidden in our > > subconsciousness.àTherefore the practice of Chan is, through the > > purification of authentic lineage dharma, cleans the hindrances of our > > consciousness, our physical body and the karma of our previous lives, and > > entering into a journey of purity, which means a path without hindrances to > > Buddhaland.àSo that upon our death, we would not panic.àWe would be > > certain that we would be on our way there. > > Each of us has approximately one hundred years to live.àHow many years > > do you have left?àWe must quickly learn to practice Chan, through which > > to improve our health, de-stress our mind, and broaden our focus from > > material world to the spiritual world.àTurn our knowledge into wisdom. > > Transform our transient self to be everlasting. Awaken from delusions to > > the "final truth".àThis is only way to liberate our spirit.Otherwise, > > we will continue to be reincarnated and float through various spiritual > > realms without end.àBe reminded that our entire life span, from > > beginning to end, is nothing but emptiness. The only possible meaningful > > accomplishment is a spiritual one.àIf you understand this truth and > > dedicate yourself to be enlightened in this life, not only you shall > > receive everlasting bliss, you shall be able to help more people, just like > > what Buddha and Jesus did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Us > > > > > > > > Heart Chan is the teaching of Grand Chan Master Wu Jue Miao Tian.àHe is > > the 85th patriarch since Shakyamuni, 58th patriarch since Bodhidarma and > > 48th patriarch of Linji School. > > He teaches that we all could be enlightened in this life. > > > > > > > > The Four Practices To Enlightenment > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Purity > > Detox our body, our mind and our spirit. > > > > > > > > Wisdom > > Detach from all forms. In Sync with the Heart of Buddha. > > > > > > > > Fulfillment > > Fulfill every encounter without question or expectation. > > > > > > > > Enlightenment > > True Nature Connects With Buddha. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not interested any more? Unsubscribe > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
