Bill, I am led to believe you are saying that what a zen master does without hesitation in those circumstances is uncertain and cannot be intellectualized. He may become a 19th passer by, pretending not to see anything. Or he may rush the toddler to a hospital before the trash collector comes. What will happen defies the law of probability. Only the other-worldly 'just this' can explain or refuse to explain. Anthony
________________________________ From: Bill! <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011, 18:10 Subject: Re: [Zen] What's Up? Anthony, I could say what I think another person (or I) 'should' do in circumstances like these, but that's not the point. That's intellectualizing about it after-the-fact. The questions (for me) is not what I 'should' do, but what I do at that time without hesitating to think about it - Just THIS! ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > Bill, >  > One important thing is whether a conduct will increase or lessen suffering > of yourself and/or others. That I call morality. In the two stories I quote, > what should a zen master with 'just this' idea do if he is on the site? >  > You keep thinking that I think there is an authority, whether it is god, > society or other superheros who is capable of judging what is moral and what > is not. That is not my idea. >  > Anthony >  > Anthony, > > You keep coming back to this - morality. It obviously bothers you so I will > try to respond as fully as possible. > > First of all we need to agree on a definition of 'morality': > 1. The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct. > 2. A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct. > 3. Virtuous conduct. > (Source: www.thefreedictionary.com) > > If this defintion is not satisfactory to you please suggest another. In the > interium I'll assume this definiton is okay. > > So 'morality' is tightely coupled to the dualistic concept of right/wrong. > Further more it assumes there is a 'standard' or perhaps even an 'absolute' > against which actions can be judged to determine if they are moral or immoral. > > Buddha Nature doesn't work this way. It harbors no dualistic concepts. It > adheres to no standards. It is Just THIS! That means the circumstances and > your actions (or inaction) are all one. There is no separation, no dividing > them up into categories like: me, child, pain, comfort, assist - or me, > other, water, danger, rescue. It is all Just THIS! > > Now I'm not sure exactly what your question is asking. > - If you're asking 'can zen be intentionally practiced immorally?', then my > answer is 'no'. > - If you're asking 'can zen be intentionally practiced morally?', then my > answer is 'no'. > - If you're asking 'can zen practice be judged by someone else as moral or > immoral?', then my answer is 'yes'. > > And although you didn't ask, if you did ask 'can zen be practiced > intentionally?', my answer is 'no'. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > Bill, > >  > > It is due to a lack of challenges. The following two stories from China > > serve the purpose: > >  > > A Tale of 18 Passers By > > A toddler was run over by a van in a small lane of the fast growing town of > > Foshan. She was left lying on the street for an hour, during which time 18 > > pedestrians and cyclists passed by. Some of them looked at the scene and > > quickly turned the attention to another direction. The others just went > > by without seemingly noticing anything, until an old woman trash collector > > arrived and helped the kid to a hospital. The child later died owing to > > wounds and losing too much blood. > >  > > A Foreign Tourist Saves a Local Woman > > In a scenic West Lake in Hangzhou, a woman fell into the water and was > > struggling. Some people were seen on the shore, but what they did was > > either taking pictures or just standing by. None of them even called > > emergency or police. A kindhearted lady across the hemisphere from Uruguay > > noticed what happened and quickly jumped into water to save the woman. > >  > > The absence of morality is apparent in both cases. Can zen be practiced in > > the same way? > >  > > Anthony > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2011 10:20 AM > > Subject: [Zen] What's Up? > > > > > >  > > I haven't seen any posts for several days now. What's everybody doing? > > Zazen? Occupy @MyCity? Golf? > > > > ...Bill! > > >
