Anthony, I saw a remark about Myoken referencing me in one of your earlier posts. I didn't think Myoken's post was asking for a response from me but I'll go back and take another look.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > Bill, >  > The battle has come to a deadlock. Lets have a ceasefire and fight again some > other day. You have so many other crocodiles to fight while the floods have > not completely receded. >  > Meanwhile please reply to Myoken, whom you have neglected so far. >  > Anthony > > > ________________________________ > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011, 13:10 > Subject: Re: [Zen] What's Up? > > >  > Anthony, > > I am saying pretty much what you wrote below. > > A zen master (or anyone manifesting Buddha Nature) acts without hesitation, > without intellectualization and without a goal such as 'doing the right > thing' or 'being moral' or 'being compassionate'. > > I'm pretty sure a zen master would not 'pass by pretending not to see'. If > he/she did not act or chose an action other than the one you think was > 'proper' it wouldn't BECAUSE of anything, and certinaly wouldn't be > accompanied by 'pretending'. > > I think you're over-thinking this. It's not all that hard to understand: when > hungry, eat; when tired, sleep; when rested, when encountering someone in > pain, help. > > That's all it is. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > à> > I am led to believe you are saying that what a zen master does without > > hesitation in those circumstances is uncertain and cannot be > > intellectualized. He may become a 19th passer by, pretending not to see > > anything. Or he may rush the toddler to a hospital before the trash > > collector comes. What will happen defies the law of probability. Only the > > other-worldly 'just this' can explain or refuse to explain. > > à> > Anthony > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011, 18:10 > > Subject: Re: [Zen] What's Up? > > > > > > à> > Anthony, > > I could say what I think another person (or I) 'should' do in circumstances > > like these, but that's not the point. That's intellectualizing about it > > after-the-fact. > > > > The questions (for me) is not what I 'should' do, but what I do at that > > time without hesitating to think about it - Just THIS! > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > Ãâà> > > One important thing is whetherÃâàa conduct will increase or lessen > > > suffering of yourself and/or others. That I call morality. In the two > > > stories I quote, what should a zen master with 'just this' idea do if he > > > is on the site? > > > Ãâà> > > You keep thinking that I think there is an authority, whether it is god, > > > society or other superheros who is capable of judging what is moral and > > > what is not. That is not my idea. > > > Ãâà> > > Anthony > > > Ãâà> > > Anthony, > > > > > > You keep coming back to this - morality. It obviously bothers you so I > > > will try to respond as fully as possible. > > > > > > First of all we need to agree on a definition of 'morality': > > > 1. The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct. > > > 2. A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct. > > > 3. Virtuous conduct. > > > (Source: www.thefreedictionary.com) > > > > > > If this defintion is not satisfactory to you please suggest another. In > > > the interium I'll assume this definiton is okay. > > > > > > So 'morality' is tightely coupled to the dualistic concept of > > > right/wrong. Further more it assumes there is a 'standard' or perhaps > > > even an 'absolute' against which actions can be judged to determine if > > > they are moral or immoral. > > > > > > Buddha Nature doesn't work this way. It harbors no dualistic concepts. It > > > adheres to no standards. It is Just THIS! That means the circumstances > > > and your actions (or inaction) are all one. There is no separation, no > > > dividing them up into categories like: me, child, pain, comfort, assist - > > > or me, other, water, danger, rescue. It is all Just THIS! > > > > > > Now I'm not sure exactly what your question is asking. > > > - If you're asking 'can zen be intentionally practiced immorally?', then > > > my answer is 'no'. > > > - If you're asking 'can zen be intentionally practiced morally?', then my > > > answer is 'no'. > > > - If you're asking 'can zen practice be judged by someone else as moral > > > or immoral?', then my answer is 'yes'. > > > > > > And although you didn't ask, if you did ask 'can zen be practiced > > > intentionally?', my answer is 'no'. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > It is due to a lack of challenges. The following two stories from China > > > > serve the purpose: > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > A Tale of 18 Passers By > > > > A toddler was run over by a van in a small lane of the fast growing > > > > town of Foshan. She was left lying on the street for an hour, during > > > > which time 18 pedestrians and cyclists passed by. Some of them looked > > > > at the scene and quickly turned theÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàattention to > > > > another direction. The others just went by without seemingly noticing > > > > anything, until an old woman trash collector arrived and helped the kid > > > > to a hospital. The child later died owing to wounds and losing too much > > > > blood. > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > A Foreign Tourist Saves a Local Woman > > > > In a scenic West Lake in Hangzhou, a woman fell into the > > > > waterÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàand was struggling. Some people were seen on > > > > the shore, but what they did was either taking pictures or just > > > > standing by. None of them even called emergency or police. A > > > > kindhearted lady across the hemisphere from Uruguay noticed what > > > > happened and quickly jumped into water to save the woman. > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > The absence of morality is apparent in both cases. Can zen be practiced > > > > in the same way? > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2011 10:20 AM > > > > Subject: [Zen] What's Up? > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > I haven't seen any posts for several days now. What's everybody doing? > > > > Zazen? Occupy @MyCity? Golf? > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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