Bill and Anthony, I think Anthony's error is in thinking that morality comes from external dictates that either are or are not complied with. That is after all the usual definition.
However Zen action comes directly and spontaneously from within in direct reaction to reality rather than in accord with some external dictate. It is my contention that Zen realization which reveals that all beings have Buddha nature and are real and sentient conscious beings automatically results in what would be conventionally described as 'moral' behavior. This is because one recognizes one shares the same Buddha nature stuff with all other beings, and in fact with the whole of reality itself. There is nothing else. With this realization one naturally acts in what would be described as a moral way but this morality comes from within as natural spontaneous Zen rather than from external dogma. Edgar On Nov 17, 2011, at 8:46 AM, Bill! wrote: > Anthony, > > You keep coming back to this - morality. It obviously bothers you so I will > try to respond as fully as possible. > > First of all we need to agree on a definition of 'morality': > 1. The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct. > 2. A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct. > 3. Virtuous conduct. > (Source: www.thefreedictionary.com) > > If this defintion is not satisfactory to you please suggest another. In the > interium I'll assume this definiton is okay. > > So 'morality' is tightely coupled to the dualistic concept of right/wrong. > Further more it assumes there is a 'standard' or perhaps even an 'absolute' > against which actions can be judged to determine if they are moral or immoral. > > Buddha Nature doesn't work this way. It harbors no dualistic concepts. It > adheres to no standards. It is Just THIS! That means the circumstances and > your actions (or inaction) are all one. There is no separation, no dividing > them up into categories like: me, child, pain, comfort, assist - or me, > other, water, danger, rescue. It is all Just THIS! > > Now I'm not sure exactly what your question is asking. > - If you're asking 'can zen be intentionally practiced immorally?', then my > answer is 'no'. > - If you're asking 'can zen be intentionally practiced morally?', then my > answer is 'no'. > - If you're asking 'can zen practice be judged by someone else as moral or > immoral?', then my answer is 'yes'. > > And although you didn't ask, if you did ask 'can zen be practiced > intentionally?', my answer is 'no'. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > >  > > It is due to a lack of challenges. The following two stories from China > > serve the purpose: > >  > > A Tale of 18 Passers By > > A toddler was run over by a van in a small lane of the fast growing town of > > Foshan. She was left lying on the street for an hour, during which time 18 > > pedestrians and cyclists passed by. Some of them looked at the scene and > > quickly turned the attention to another direction. The others just went by > > without seemingly noticing anything, until an old woman trash collector > > arrived and helped the kid to a hospital. The child later died owing to > > wounds and losing too much blood. > >  > > A Foreign Tourist Saves a Local Woman > > In a scenic West Lake in Hangzhou, a woman fell into the water and was > > struggling. Some people were seen on the shore, but what they did was > > either taking pictures or just standing by. None of them even called > > emergency or police. A kindhearted lady across the hemisphere from Uruguay > > noticed what happened and quickly jumped into water to save the woman. > >  > > The absence of morality is apparent in both cases. Can zen be practiced in > > the same way? > >  > > Anthony > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2011 10:20 AM > > Subject: [Zen] What's Up? > > > > > >  > > I haven't seen any posts for several days now. What's everybody doing? > > Zazen? Occupy @MyCity? Golf? > > > > ...Bill! > > > >
