TaoSheiFei, Since I think you and I are going to exchange frequent posts in the future I'm going to start addressing you as TSF from now on - unless you object to that. I'll do that because I'm lazy.
I realize, and I think you do also, that using terms such as we are doing in this exchange is frought with the danger of being misunderstood. Still, this text medium is all we have and I, again probably like you, do enjoy exploring other peoples experiences and understanding of zen. So, with those caveats... I do mean when using the term 'trying' that my mind is 'wandering' - I have created a self and am accumulating attachments. I do not mean that thoughts do not arise at all, but that when they do there is no attachment to them. I know our language is at it's core dualistic, so when you say 'I am watching it rain' you have created a subject self (I) that is acting upon (watching) an object (rain). The sentence implies there is a 'you' and an external object called 'rain', and that 'you' are interacting with 'rain' by 'watching'. When 'awareness is present' (using your term which I think is the same as my term 'Just THIS!', or 'Buddha Mind/Nature' or Original Mind) there is no subject/object, so of course there is no relationship between them. They are One. There is Just THIS! - and that of course would at this immediate instance of experience be unnamed. Using a poetic expression you might communicate it as 'rain', actually naming it, but you wouldn't say 'it is raining' or 'I see/feel/hear/smell/taste the rain'. It would be just 'rain'. Better yet is not to name it but to only write a word that will actually invoke the existential experience. A good example of this is an English translation of Basho's excellent haiku: "Furu ike ya kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto" ...or "The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop!" - Alan Watts translation The 'plop' is an attempt at to communicate the actual experience with a word. This is also translated by some as 'splash' or just 'water sound'. Another good example would be the koan Mu. Joshu, when asked if a dog has a Buddha Nature, replied 'Mu!'. That was Joshu's attempt at actually communicating Buddha Nature (Just THIS!) in a sound. 'Mu' also happens to be a word, but it's meaning in Japanese is unimportant, at least to the koan - just as the meaning of the word 'plop' is unimportant to the haiku, only its sound. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], yonyonson@... wrote: > > Bill!, > > what is the difference between trying and being when awareness is present? > even when "trying" and aware of it, aren't we 100% "trying"? > > firstly, though, when u say "trying" do you mean your mind wanders and a > "you" attaches to that wandering? or are you saying that any thought that > arises which u are aware of but do not attach to while "being" is a > "trying?" or something else...? > > I mean the former. and when my attention is present again i may still > continue being aware of the "trying", but it's of a quality of "watching it > rain" so to speak. > > TaoSheiFei > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 12:06 AM, Bill! <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > TaoSheiFei, > > > > 'Trying' and 'being' are not the same, and I agree with you and admit that > > in my zen practice of over 40 years I still do a lot of 'trying' along with > > just 'being'. The ratio of trying:being has steadily improved over the > > years, but the 'trying' has not yet gone to zero. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], yonyonson@ wrote: > > > > > > Bill!, > > > > > > In my own practice this has extended to "trying to be with them" or > > "trying > > > ..." (when it arises that mind has wandered) and this mindfulness outside > > > the mind has settled my own BEing. to a beginner's mind--as i fluctuate > > in > > > and out of--your statement was neither! > > > > > > TaoSheiFei > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TaoSheiFei, > > > > > > > > When I used the phrase 'being totally with them', I could have just > > > > shortened it to 'be'. What I meant was whereever you are, whatever you > > are > > > > doing or whomever you are with - just totally do that - just be. Don't > > > > think about what you 'should' do, or whether it matches something > > you've > > > > read, or be thinking about what you're going to do afterwards, or how > > well > > > > you're doing, etc... > > > > > > > > The zen saying for this is: > > > > > > > > 'When sitting, sit. When standing, stand. When walking, walk. When > > > > running, run. Above all don't wobble.' > > > > > > > > ...so maybe I could extend these to: 'When being cryptic, be cryptic. > > When > > > > being false, be false.' > > > > > > > > I hope it came across as one or the other... > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], yonyonson@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey Bill!, > > > > > > > > > > will u please clarify what "being totally with them" means? the mind > > is > > > > > such that your statement could create a myriad of what "just > > THIS"ness > > > > is. > > > > > for a beginner or so-believed-mature seeker, your statement is > > cryptic at > > > > > least and false at most... > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > TaoSheiFei > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amy, > > > > > > > > > > > > No reading is necessary. When you are with your family just be > > totally > > > > > > with them. That's all you need to do...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Amy Lemmon <amylemmon@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am wondering if anyone has any great suggestions for reading > > and > > > > > > resources for a family (multi-age) learning about Zen Buddhism? > > Thanks > > > > > > kindly! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With peace, love and kindness, > > > > > > > Amy Lemmon > > > > > > > amylemmon@ > > > > > > > Blog: Six Flower Mom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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