Looking into the unknown the things a person might imagine they see often say more about them than what exists their in that unknown place.
--- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote: > > Does your Dark Temple worships Marx and Lenin? >  > Anthony > > > ________________________________ > From: rewrisk <rewrisk@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, 23 January 2012, 19:45 > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did your > friends & family react? > > >  > Absolutely. > There is no area of my spiritual life that is not firmly grounded in reality. > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > Do you also take a materialistic view? > > à> > Anthony > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: rewrisk <rewrisk@> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Monday, 23 January 2012, 18:47 > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did your > > friends & family react? > > > > > > à> > "You tracked it correctly. Explained incorrectly." > > Pardon? > > I'll stay with my original question and the implied assertion that reality > > is in fact material reality. > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > > > Rewrisk, > > > Ãâà> > > You tracked it correctly. Explained incorrectly. I referred to Mike's > > > contradiction against his usual way, by saying that nothing exists except > > > atoms and space. I did not state my view. Nevertheless, I give you a > > > thesis here. For instance, Bill insists nothing at all exists in this > > > world (maybe only chaos and Buddha nature exist).What is your comment? > > > Ãâà> > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: rewrisk <rewrisk@> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Monday, 23 January 2012, 18:04 > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did your > > > friends & family react? > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > I am sorry was this not your post. > > > I am surprised you take that materialistic view. So all of your vipassana > > > with ensuing red, brown, crimson lights are just hallucinations. > > > > > > I thought I had tracked it correctly. > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > You say, 'So Anthony do you really believe that you know something that > > > > does not exist? > > > > I would like to see such a thing?' > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > I never said that. > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: rewrisk <rewrisk@> > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: Monday, 23 January 2012, 11:59 > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did your > > > > friends & family react? > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > So Anthony do you really believe that you know something that does not > > > > exist? > > > > I would like to see such a thing? > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > Only just now you said atoms and empty space, and the rest don't. > > > > > That is a materialistic view, which have existed (besides atoms and > > > > > space) thousands of years. > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: mike brown <uerusuboyo@> > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 18 January 2012, 0:13 > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did > > > > > your friends & family react? > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > Hi Anthony, > > > > > > > > > > My point is that labeling phenonema and things is all just opinion. > > > > > Saying I am, or am not, a Buddhist (for example) is to miss the point > > > > > of Zen. Same with labeling phenonema as 'cause and effect' or > > > > > 'freewill'. These things simply don't exist in the universe. We can > > > > > claim they exist in the sense that counting exists, yet the number 4 > > > > > doesn't. Same with unicorns and Buddhists. > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 15/1/12, Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Anthony Wu <wuasg@> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did > > > > > >your friends & family react? > > > > > >To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > > > >Date: Sunday, 15 January, 2012, 8:53 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > >Mike, > > > > > >ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > >I am surprised you take that materialistic view. So all of your > > > > > >vipassana with ensuing red, brown, crimson lights are just > > > > > >hallucinations. > > > > > >ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > >Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > >From: mike brown <uerusuboyo@> > > > > > >To: [email protected] > > > > > >Sent: Saturday, 14 January 2012, 21:29 > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did > > > > > >your friends & family react? > > > > > > > > > > > >ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > >Siska, > > > > > > > > > > > >ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàNothing exists except > > > > > >atoms and empty space; everything else is just opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà >  ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà >  ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã' > > > > âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã' > âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã' > âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã' > > > âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâàÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > - Democritus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Mike > > > > > > > > > > > >--- On Sat, 14/1/12, siska_cen@ <siska_cen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>From: siska_cen@ <siska_cen@> > > > > > >>Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did > > > > > >>your friends & family react? > > > > > >>To: [email protected] > > > > > >>Date: Saturday, 14 January, 2012, 23:17 > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >>ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > >>Hi Bill,It took a while for me to figure this :-) I'm rather slow, > > > > > >>perhaps lately, if not always.The idea that cause and effect is > > > > > >>illusory is quite new to me. I remember Anthony mentioning it > > > > > >>before, but didn't really sink in. I thought the concept of cause > > > > > >>and effect is something that is parallel to dependent origination, > > > > > >>which is to say that everything is simultaneously affecting many > > > > > >>other things in such complicated manner that our mind cannot really > > > > > >>grasp it. Even if it can, it is actually of no use. As you said, > > > > > >>the mind needs it to 'feel' secure.I never thought it as illusory > > > > > >>though. Whatever we think about it IS illusory.Siska > > > > > >> > > > > > >>________________________________ > > > > > >> > > > > > >>From: "Bill!" <BillSmart@> > > > > > >>Sender: [email protected] > > > > > >>Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 02:19:25 -0000 > > > > > >>To: <[email protected]> > > > > > >>ReplyTo: [email protected] > > > > > >>Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did > > > > > >>your friends family > > > > > >>react?ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > >>Siska,Yes, the concept of cause-and-effect is illusory.The belief > > > > > >>in cause-and-effect is an attempt by your discriminating mind to > > > > > >>'understand' reality, to 'make sense'of experience which is > > > > > >>fundamentally chaotic. It is a process of breaking up wholistic > > > > > >>experience (Just THIS!) into pieces, and then to categorize and > > > > > >>even directly associating some pieces with others by assigning a > > > > > >>dependent cause-and-effect relationship to these pairs or sets of > > > > > >>pieces. The establishment of these cause-and-effect relationships > > > > > >>are done to fit your needs at the time. They are not absolute, > > > > > >>objective or real. They are relational, subjective and illusory - > > > > > >>this is because they are dependent upon your dualistic concept of > > > > > >>self/other. The illusion of cause-and-effect helps you feel more > > > > > >>comfortable and gives you a certain sense of control of life.The > > > > > >>concept of karma is a spritualized version of cause-and-effect > > > > > >>which is usually thought of as purely a physical > > > > > relationship.The letting go of this illusion is sometimes referred to > > > > > in zen stories as 'leaping into the abyss', or 'taking a step off the > > > > > 100-ft flagpole'. These are teachings telling you that you must let > > > > > go of your attachments (espcially to logic and the belief in > > > > > cause-and-effect), come out of your fantasy comfort zone, throw away > > > > > your illusory security blanket and throw yourself completly into the > > > > > stark unknown and unknowable.There's no comforting assurance of > > > > > cause-and-effect there. Just THIS!...Bill! --- In > > > > > [email protected], siska_cen@ wrote:>> Hi Bill,> > > The > > > > > killing is not the cause and the dieing the effect.> Would you then > > > > > say that cause and effect is illusory?> > Siska> -----Original > > > > > Message-----> From: "Bill!" <BillSmart@>> Sender: > > > > > [email protected]> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 08:18:32 > To: > > > > > <[email protected]>> Reply-To: [email protected]> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How > > > > > did your friends & family react?> > Anthony,> > When I said 'outside > > > > > agency' I meant 'outside of you' or 'other than you'. When you say > > > > > 'karma functions by itself' you are implying that karma exists > > > > > independently of you; like when you say 'not my will but Yours > > > > > (God's) be done' you are implying that God exists independently of > > > > > you. You are implying that 'karma' and 'God' are 'outside agencies' - > > > > > outside of and/or separate from you.> > I am saying that both the > > > > > concept of 'karma' and 'God' and all their supposed attributes and > > > > > associated powers/activites are NOT separate from you. That are > > > > > created by you - by your discriminating mind. They are illusory.> > > > > > > If you kill, there is killing. If you are killed, you die. If you > > > > > loot, there is looting. If you are looted, you loose property. The > > > > > killing is not the cause and the dieing the effect. It is the same > > > > > action viewed or described from two perspectives. It is Just THIS!> > > > > > > This is my > > experience...Bill!> > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:> >> > > > > > > Bill,> > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > The difference is that karma does not rely on God or any other > > > > > 'outside agent'. It functions by itself. On the other hand, if you > > > > > deny karma, does that mean whatever you do, whether killing, looting > > > > > or burning, does not have any effects? You may say you rely on law to > > > > > take care of it. But that is part of karma, at the human level. > > > > > Nevertheless, it is more realistic than reliance on God. if all are > > > > > illusory, killing and looting will be out of control. In that case, > > > > > believing in God is better than believing in nothing.> > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > Anthony> > > > > > ________________________________> > From: Bill! > > > > > <BillSmart@>> > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Monday, 9 > > > > > January 2012, 13:00> > Subject: Re: [Zen] > When you began learning about buddhism, How did your friends & family > react?> > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Anthony,> > > > How are > > > they different concepts?> > > > Both > > > > have to do with > > > > > action/reaction (cause and effect), and both exist as a concept in > > > > > your mind.> > > > Labeling some actions/reactions or cause/effect as > > > > > good or bad (good deeds lead to reward or sin leads to punishment; or > > > > > accumulation of [bad] karma leads to being re-born as a toad) is just > > > > > packaging. Likewise attributng the enforcement of actions/reactions > > > > > or cause/effect to an outside agency such as karma or God is also > > > > > just packaging.> > > > It all looks the same to me - illusory, > > > > > dualistic packaging.> > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In > > > > > [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > > > Bill,> > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > It is a different message you wrap in the same envelope.> > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > Anthony> > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > From: > Bill! <BillSmart@>> > > To: > > [email protected] > > > Sent: Monday, 9 January 2012, 9:15> > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began > > > learning about buddhism, How did your friends & > > > > family react?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > Anthony,> > > > > > You definition of karma is well > > > > > > > > stated, but why do you not think that definition could not also > > > > > > > > be applied to the Christian concept of sin/obedience and > > > > > > > > Hell/Heaven?> > > > > > For me it's the same message in a > > > > > > > > different envelope.> > > > > > ...Bill!> > > > > > --- In > > > > > > > > [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > That is not karma, but reward and punishment by God. Karma > > > > > > > > is action and reaction by yourself through your own mind (or > > > > > > > > Buddha nature).> > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã 'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã¦ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > Anthony> > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@>> > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Sent: > Sunday, 8 January 2012, > > 18:03> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How > > did your friends & family react?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã 'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã¦ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > Christians beleive in 'karma' > > > > also: if you're 'good' you go to Heaven and if you're > > > > > 'bad' you go to Hell...Bill!> > > > > > > > --- In > > > > > [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ItÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã 'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâà'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâæÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã 'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã¦ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàis > > > > > not at all surprising that you got a funny reaction from people > surrounding you when you said you were interested in Buddhism. Try doing the > same thing with Moslems, and you get a funnier response. Even in this forum, > which is less hostile to Buddhism, you find different views on it. > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã 'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâà'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâæÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã 'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã¦ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > The key point in Buddhism is karma. But Hinduism also agrees to > > karma. The difference between the two is the former insists that karma is > > your own business, nobody else > > > can help you change it. However, in Hinduism, there are powerful deities > > > who respond to your requests and assist you. Don't forget we are a zen > > > forum, and there are a view I term chaotic > > > > zen, which denies anything on karma, or any laws or rules. They say > > > > everything is in chaos. On > > > > > the other hand, you will also hear all kinds of Buddhist views here. > > > > > I hope you have fun here. > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã 'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâà'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâæÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã 'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã¦ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > Anthony> > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã 'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâà'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâæÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã 'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã¦ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã 'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâà'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâæÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã 'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã¦ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > > > > > From: dan_guzy <dan_guzy@>> > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, 7 January 2012, 16:08> > > > > Subject: > [Zen] When you began learning about buddhism, How did your friends & family > > > react?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã 'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâà'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâæÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã 'ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâìÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã¦ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Â 'ÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¡ÃâìÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦ÃâáÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > I seem to be having trouble with this. I'm new to buddhism, > > > just recently starting reading up on it the past several months, although > > > technically > > > > I've been exposed to it for many years through a variety of tv shows, > > > > movies, etc. My favorite was Kung Fu: The Legend Continues. Don't know > > > > why, but the scenes with the shoalin temple > > > > > and buddhist monks were always my favorite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Although I haven't come right out and said to my family (except for > > > > > my sister) that I'm learning about Buddhism, they've seen the books > > > > > and notes I leave to myself pertaining to it. So far, it has not been > > > > > encouraging. They kind of give a disgusted look or a groan when they > > > > > see it that suggests that they are not happy about it. They are > > > > > catholics. I'm an atheist (which they've known for years). When I > > > > > finally told my sister that I'd like to visit a temple in town, she > > > > > got disqusted and said "why? You'll never go with me to my church, > > > > > but you'll go to a buddhist church?" I didn't know what to say, so I > > > > > told her the truth, that I didn't feel anything for catholicism > > > > > anymore, and that it didn't feel like the right religion for me. She > > > > > wasn't pleased.> > > > > > > > > > Then today I was having a chat > > > > > with a co-worker and boss at work. I get along great with both of > > > > > them, known them for > > > several > > > > > years. My co-worker mentioned she and her husband were atheists, so I > > > > > told her I was too. We both got a kick out of it realizing that we > > > > > never knew that about each other. Then I mentioned to her that I had > > > > > been reading up on buddhism lately, and she gave the same kind of > > > > > groan I've been hearing from my family. My boss just sort of gave a > > > > > look of shock and disbelief, didn't say anything. I couple of weeks > > > > > or so before that, I was discussing various books with another boss > > > > > that we like to read, and I mentioned one I'd been reading called the > > > > > Peaceful Warrior. He asked what it was about so I told him, and when > > > > > I mentioned it has a buddhist theme to it, he gave a funny look.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's funny about all of this is that I've always > > > > > figured buddhism to be one of the most revered and highly respected > > > > > forms of philosophy and religion on earth. Even growing up I felt > > > > > that way. When I go online to Yahoo Answers R&S forum to ask a > > > > > question > > > pertaining > > > > > to it, I haven't had any bad replies over a single question, and if > > > > > any of you have ever been on there, you know they can be harsh > > > > > sometimes in that section. So it really threw me for a loop seeing > > > > > all these crazy reactions from people I know.> > > > > > > > > > Did > > > > > any of you get these same reactions from the people you knew when you > > > > > were first learning about buddhism?> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
