Anthony,

I saw the video of the child being run over by the van, 2 or 3 times, and 
people just walking by.

I am not a zen master and I certainly wouldn't have just walked by.  I would 
have stopped to help the child and call an ambulance.  I don't know anyone who 
wouldn't do that.

What would you have done?

...Bill!

--- In [email protected], Anthony Wu <wuasg@...> wrote:
>
> K,
>  
> For a cancer patient, it is simple: take a pain killer. What use for arguing 
> about pain being information? The question is your attitude toward others' 
> pain. Do you care about it or treat is as none of your business?
>  
> The story I quoted really happened. Again if a zen master was present, would 
> he be another passer by, or do something to help? That is also a question of 
> duality. Are 'you' and 'others' the same thing or different?
>  
> Anthony
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Kristopher Grey <kris@...>
> To: [email protected] 
> Sent: Saturday, 11 February 2012, 7:30
> Subject: Re: [Zen] What of God?
> 
> 
>   
> On 2/10/2012 4:45 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: 
>   
> >
> >
> >You say, 'Better to drop this idea of "suffering".'
> >How can? If you are in great pain, e.g. due to cancer, can you 'drop' the 
> >idea?
> You pick through my words, hoping to find something that conforms to what you 
> want to believe, while what I'm getting at slips through your fingers. 
> 
> Pain is information. Act on it (by simply being with it, and taking actions 
> to ameliorate when possible). 
> 
> Suffering is disinformation. Cease creating it.
> 
> Pain is sensation that arises. Suffering is sensationalizing what arises.
> 
> Pain arises choicelessly. Suffering is the rejection of/attachment to that 
> pain, falsely believing (out of hope/fear) we can chose something other than 
> what is present.
> 
> How many more ways does it need to be said?
> 
> Look at it. In you, not others. There is only one mind you can use for this.
> 
> 
> 
>  
> >You alsao say, 'A master helps by pointing, and points by helping.'
> >In the case of an accident in China a few months ago, a toddler was run over 
> >by a van, bleeding and crying. 18 people passed by without taking action. 
> >Then would the master do enough by 'pointing'?
> You're spinning different stories (tragic, yes - but I cannot help you now by 
> going into the past or potential futures). Each used to repeat the same 
> thinly veiled accusations against imagined people not living up to your 
> imagined notions of how a "master" is supposed to behave. 
> 
> The end of suffering is not realized by exploring such hypothetical pondering 
> (of real or imagined situations). I was not being glib when I said "only your 
> expectations can fail you" (this being yet another form of suffering).
> 
> What a "master" does or does not do has no effect on suffering. They can only 
> point to its nature, which when seen for what it is, makes it clear cessation 
> the only path to ending it. This ending is effortless, a side effect of 
> realizing the suffering was false/empty to begin with.
> 
> Being free of suffering, allows us to deal with pain directly (be seeing we 
> always were).
> 
> Until you realize the nature of suffering, everything that arises will appear 
> as some form of suffering (supporting the fundamental delusion of me/mine/not 
> mine). End your own suffering (regardless of what pain arises), then worry 
> about the suffering of "all sentient beings".
> 
> Long story short: Try to see where I'm pointing, without getting stuck on 
> this or that point.
> 
> Be the answer.
> 
> K
>




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