interesting to watch the zen forum turn into hair splitting philosophical 
discussion -- 

It is one of the by products of this thing we nominate as zen, relected in all 
of our, shall we say, preoccuptions?

hallucinations?

now we are back to "just this --" 

but then what is that says the mind, I got some ideas I am not done with, and 
well . . . you don't know zen, and I could know zen, for there are those who 
know zen, and I identify with them . . . 

that's my zen . . . not your zen . . . 

and then again, Jesus just left Chicago and he is headed towards New Orleans.

gasho

zendervish

--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
> 
> Well as you know we have a basic disagreement on this. Forms are illusory 
> only in the sense they are empty of any self substances, nevertheless they 
> still exists as empty information forms and part of that existence is they 
> are a logical structure...
> 
> Edgar
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 6, 2012, at 4:17 PM, Bill! wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Edgar,
> > 
> > You wrote:  "The world of forms operates according to logical rules..." and 
> > I couldn't really disagree with that statement.  However, the world of 
> > forms is illusory and so are all the logical rules - in fact so is the 
> > concept of logic itself.  The concept of karma as you have rightfully 
> > proclaimed is just a shadow of the concept of logical rules which are based 
> > on the concept of cause-and-effect. These all are qualities of the world of 
> > forms and are all illusory.
> > 
> > ...Bill!
> > 
> > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > The world of forms operates according to logical rules, just not the 
> > > rules of Karma which are a gross Pollyanna oversimplification designed to 
> > > succor the weak and oppressed.. Same as the meek will get their rewards 
> > > in heaven...
> > > 
> > > Edgar
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Apr 6, 2012, at 12:44 AM, Kristopher Grey wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On 4/5/2012 1:16 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
> > > > 
> > > >> 
> > > >> This is of course why the notion of Karma is total nonsense..
> > > >> 
> > > > 
> > > > No more so than saying so. ;)
> > > > 
> > > > The whole notion of 'Zen' is captured with: "Is that so?", and 
> > > > dispelled with: "Don't know", yet people still seek some understanding 
> > > > of this...
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > TODAY(Beta) • Powered by Yahoo!
> > > > Rare bone disease destroyed Colo. family
> > > > A father accused of child abuse ends up killing his wife and himself.
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> > >
> > 
> >
>




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