The error is that to have Zen you must directly experience reality as it actually is. Without understanding what reality actually is you'll forever mistake illusion for reality...
Edgar On Apr 6, 2012, at 5:44 PM, salik888 wrote: > interesting to watch the zen forum turn into hair splitting philosophical > discussion -- > > It is one of the by products of this thing we nominate as zen, relected in > all of our, shall we say, preoccuptions? > > hallucinations? > > now we are back to "just this --" > > but then what is that says the mind, I got some ideas I am not done with, and > well . . . you don't know zen, and I could know zen, for there are those who > know zen, and I identify with them . . . > > that's my zen . . . not your zen . . . > > and then again, Jesus just left Chicago and he is headed towards New Orleans. > > gasho > > zendervish > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Bill, > > > > Well as you know we have a basic disagreement on this. Forms are illusory > > only in the sense they are empty of any self substances, nevertheless they > > still exists as empty information forms and part of that existence is they > > are a logical structure... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Apr 6, 2012, at 4:17 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > You wrote: "The world of forms operates according to logical rules..." > > > and I couldn't really disagree with that statement. However, the world of > > > forms is illusory and so are all the logical rules - in fact so is the > > > concept of logic itself. The concept of karma as you have rightfully > > > proclaimed is just a shadow of the concept of logical rules which are > > > based on the concept of cause-and-effect. These all are qualities of the > > > world of forms and are all illusory. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The world of forms operates according to logical rules, just not the > > > > rules of Karma which are a gross Pollyanna oversimplification designed > > > > to succor the weak and oppressed.. Same as the meek will get their > > > > rewards in heaven... > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 6, 2012, at 12:44 AM, Kristopher Grey wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 4/5/2012 1:16 PM, Edgar Owen wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> This is of course why the notion of Karma is total nonsense.. > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > No more so than saying so. ;) > > > > > > > > > > The whole notion of 'Zen' is captured with: "Is that so?", and > > > > > dispelled with: "Don't know", yet people still seek some > > > > > understanding of this... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TODAY(Beta) • Powered by Yahoo! > > > > > Rare bone disease destroyed Colo. family > > > > > A father accused of child abuse ends up killing his wife and himself. > > > > > Privacy Policy > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
