I second Mike's statement! "If we are going to use language, then let's at least get the terminology right." And to do that many times we have to talk about the terms we use to make sure we're talking about the same thing.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > JMJM, > > >Since you prefer to get deep into the muddy form of words.. > > Not at all. But I do like to know/clarify what it is that is being discussed > or what it is I'm supposed to be practicing. If we are going to use language, > then let's at least get the terminology right. Sitting with a clear mind is > sitting with a clear mind - it's not an emotional free for all. > > > Mike > > > > ________________________________ > From: 覺å¦ç²¾æ ï¼JMJMï¼ <chan.jmjm@...> > To: [email protected] > Cc: mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> > Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 22:28 > Subject: Re: [Zen] Samadhi > > >  > Oh Mike, > > When I say more, I mean more experience for John. It will take him > sometime to be truly detached from forms and arrive at the middle > way. > > Since you prefer to get deep into the muddy form of words ---- > Shigantaza is not what we practice. Historically Chan is the parent > of zen. Is it possible that some of the authentic Chan practice is > missing from zen? Yet... > > This kind of discussion does help anyone. > > What we need to do is not to poke at the difference in our mental > understandings or description of practice. There is no dharma in > words. Dharma as you have experienced, needs to be received by our > Heart Chakra, directly, instantly without fear. Isn't that what > Diamond Sutra continuously trying to tell us? > > Most of us are fearful of loosing whatever concepts of dharma we > acquired. We need to let everyone relax, so to forget every thread > of dharma in our mind. Open our Heart chakra and resonate with the > wisdom of each moment. > > _/\_ > jm > > > On 8/3/2012 2:15 PM, mike brown wrote: > >  > >JMJM, > > > > > >I don't wish to sound like I'm demeaning John's experience, I'm very happy > >that he finally discovered something of importance to him, but you > >originally said he did more than just witness this event. Anything more is > >not shikantaza as I understand it. Sometimes we have to categorise. > >Shikantaza is not TM or bhakti yoga meditation. There are differences. > > > > > > > >Mike > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > From: 覺å¦ç²¾æ ï¼JMJMï¼ <chan.jmjm@...> > >To: [email protected] > >Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 19:35 > >Subject: Re: [Zen] Samadhi > > > > > > > >Hi Mike, > > > >Thank you, but there is no need to > categorize. John was merely grateful that he > "finally" witness the description of "love, > grace and holy spirit." > > > >I am sure John will experience the rest as he > continue to purify his body and mind, just > like the rest of us. > > > >jm > > > > > > > >On 8/3/2012 10:34 AM, mike brown wrote: > > > > > >>JMJM, > >> > >> > >>I could be wrong, but if your colleague broke down and cried after being > >>filled with the Holy Ghost, then I think at some point his sitting stopped > >>being shikantaza, if indeed it ever was. My understanding is that there > >>would be equanimity, awareness and just simple observation of what was > >>happening if it was shikantaza. I'm sure one of our more experienced > >>members will clarify the matter for us. > >> > >> > >>Mike > >> > >> > >> > >>________________________________ > >> From: 覺å¦ç²¾æ ï¼JMJMï¼ <chan.jmjm@...> > >>To: [email protected] > >>Cc: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > >>Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 16:53 > >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Samadhi > >> > >> > >> > >>Yes, That's exactly how one of our practitioner, John Ip, described his > >>experience. John is a devoted Christian for over 20 years. Last month, > >>he shared, instead of words words and words, after enhancing his physical > >>state, the Holy Ghost comes into him and he broke down and cried. He > >>practices in our Family Meditation program in our community library for > >>about 5 months. Now he sits longer and longer everyday. > >> > >>I told him, "Holy Spirit is > called Dharmakaya in > Buddhism. Same energy, just > different names. And that is > just the beginning." > >> > >>Many of our practitioners > witnesses an "explosion" from > their heart chakra. There > were no fear. Our Teacher > said, "when there is white > light from the Heart Chakra, > then you have witness Buddha > Nature." My sister-in-law > witnesses white light every > time she sits. She "knows" > phenomena of previous > generations of other > practitioners and helps them > to "resolve" many karma. > >> > >>As to Mike's statement that he > can recognize but can not > express is a perfect example > that when we surpass our > skandhas, or regular senses, > we reach a wider state of > awareness, far beyond we can > describe by words, logic. It > is direct, instant and right. > >> > >>Some discussions in this forum > mixing up the description for > the two states, one is limited > and the other is wider, and > initiated some discussion. > Depending on the scope and > sensitivity of our awareness, > the languages and dictionary > are different. Only when we > abandon our dictionary; > experience; then could we > witness the state of being of > others. Discussion through > words are very dangerous. > Thus Chan is without words and > transmitted in addition to > teaching. > >> > >>When someday, whatever people > say, we say "ah, yes." without > analyzing, debating, defense, > then we are truly in each > moment and live in sync with > the wisdom and life force of > the universe. > >> > >>Good Day and Thank you for > reading this. > >>_/\_ > >>JM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>On 8/3/2012 3:24 AM, Bill! wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Mike, > >>> > >>>I would describe it as > something similar to being > filled with the Holy > Spirit and giving yourself > over COMPLETELY to God's > will. > >>> > >>>Bill! (not Joe or Bill) > >>> > >>>--- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Joe, > >>>> > >>>> How would you > describe shikantaza to > someone from a religion > such as Christianity? > >>>> > >>>> Mike > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ________________________________ > >>>> From: Joe <desert_woodworker@> > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Sent: Friday, 3 > August 2012, 3:24 > >>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] > Samadhi > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> à> >>>> Shikantaza is "just > keeping empty". In the Zen > sect. > >>>> > >>>> I'll say no more! > >>>> > >>>> --Joe > >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> >"ED" > <seacrofter001@> > wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> > Mike, > >>>> > > >>>> > Is shikantaza > insight meditation, > absorption meditation or > both? > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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