Re: [Zen] knowing

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 21:48:13 -0700 

Merle,

I've heard it.  It's very similar to traditional Thai music.  It uses a scale 
with 5 notes.  Western music has a scale with 7 notes.  It's interesting but 
not my favorite.

I like traditional Western classical guitar, Spanish flamenco guitar and also 
Brazilian jazz guitar music the best.

...Bill!

--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
>  woh...what an achievement... bilL..... beautiful
>  my favourite music now is classical traditional chinese...
> heard it?
>  merle
> 
> 
>   
> In my youth (to coin a phrase) I played (in order) the song flute (aka 
> recorder), cornet (small version of a trumpet) and finally the sousaphone 
> (tuba).  Later in my life I took up the guitar, first steel-string acoustic 
> but now exclusively classical guitar.
> 
> ...Bill!
> 
> --- In [email protected], William Rintala <brintala@> wrote:
> >
> > My major instrument was Trumpet, I minored in Piano.   Think 
> > Haydn's Concerto in 
> > E-flat Major for Trumpet and Orchestra.  I never played it but it 
> > influenced my 
> > early years. My teacher was an Italian gentleman by the name of Essoto 
> > Pelligrini.  Here's a taste of Haydyn's work 
> >  http://wyntonmarsalis.org/discography/title/trumpet-concertos
> > 
> > 
> >  B 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Find what makes your heart sing…and do it! 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>
> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tue, September 25, 2012 7:48:43 PM
> > Subject: [Zen] knowing
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > thank you bill...you have and are on a wonderful journey... good to 
> > hear...and 
> > you have witnessed much and thank you for sharing and opening out your heart
> > the blue blue yonder and the never never land to me are not negatives... i 
> > like 
> > the expressions..what they mean is  up to you...
> > make of it what you will
> > yes we are all awaiting the final curtain call... and life ..is but 
> > death..and 
> > death is life..." you cannot have one without the other"..was that not a 
> > song?
> > it is a surprise to know that one dies  when one hears this from the 
> > lips of 
> > others at a tender age
> > 
> > ...question: if we did not see death or was not told..would we ourselves 
> > know?
> > 
> >  of course this is impossible.
> > .it's all around us everyday...the flowers bloom ..they die and so us too
> > 
> >  how did we as you and me come to be?
> > 
> >  that is the question?
> > 
> >  in the back of my mind i knew 
> >  being is shaped by knowing
> >  i knew
> >  long before i was born
> >  i would be
> >  born
> > 
> > is this a strange fantasy of childish imagination or is it a reality?
> > 
> >  what musical instrument do you play? 
> > 
> > have a beautiful day
> >  merle
> >   
> > Merle:  
> > 
> >     My initial post was to wish you a happy Birthday.  But then 
> > your post 
> > mentioned that you were "another year older and closer to the blue blue 
> > younger 
> > ....the never never land". That sounded negative and started me thinking 
> > about 
> > my concepts of time and space.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > My hammer is not meant for you it was meant for everyone here 
> > who would deny the 
> > reality of existence as we experience it in a physical form. It is just 
> > slightly 
> > metaphorical. What can I say?  I have exerienced, as I am sure you all 
> > have, 
> > many people who can parrot all of the right words and act the appropriate 
> > way so 
> > as to play the part of an enlightened being. My hammer statement is 
> > aimed at 
> > those people who insist that "this suchness", "this isness", is 
> > illusory.  Descarte's pronoucement Cogito Ero Sum, to me means that I 
> > know that 
> > I am experiencing something.  Something is hammering at my senses and I 
> > respond.  Someone among us in the Forum might say that all of 
> > this is form, 
> > without substance.  Ephemera. That person will get hit with my 
> > hammer.  Anyone 
> > who will deny the fact that we are all here collectively, in this 
> > stuff, at this 
> > moment.  Even as we seek a deeper understanding of existence, we are 
> > all still 
> > participants.  
> > 
> > 
> > I know that you meant 'yonder' rather than 'younger'.
> > 
> > I have no Fundamentals to be 'ist' about.  
> > 
> > I am no Fascist.  I have met so many people over the years who, in the 
> > comfort 
> > of their life situation, will easily deny the pain of another and 
> > dismiss it as 
> > an illusion. I bristle at pedantry. It is easy to say that it is all mind 
> > stuff, 
> > it's something quite different when you are hit with a hammer.
> > 
> > Again you stated that you were "another year older and closer to the blue 
> > blue 
> > younger ....the never never land". Even though we have all seen bodies 
> > and we've 
> > all lost loved ones, our age has little to do with our own death.  I've 
> > seen new 
> > born babies die, young children, young men and young women, all dead. 
> > Death 
> > is no closer simply because the Earth has completed 
> > another circuit around the 
> > Sun. 
> > 
> > 
> > I began to muse about the magnitude of our self importance as percieved 
> > from the 
> > here and now. Many thoughts. We take ourselves too seriously. We live 
> > at a point 
> > where new things are coming into being and old things are falling away. As 
> > it 
> > and ever shall be.... (insert the appropriate finish)
> > 
> > Where do I imagine going after I shuffle off this mortal 
> > coil?   My education is 
> > as a scientist.  Empirical data shows me that my body's vital 
> > functions will 
> > eventually cease and the body will decompose.  If you were to dissect my 
> > body while I was living, you would never find my soul, my eternal 
> > essence.  If 
> > you were to amputate my arms and legs and remove all but the non-essential 
> > organs from my body I would still be 'here'.  I've heard stories from 
> > people who 
> > have had out of body experiences or who have had a near death experience. 
> > I've 
> > experienced neither.  I've read of people who could recall past 
> > lives.  I can 
> > not. To my knowledge no one that I've ever known has tried to 
> > communicate with 
> > me from beyond the grave. I know no non-corporeal beings.  So I have no 
> > emperical data, I have only anecdotal information. Logic takes me back 
> > to Rene,  
> > "I think, therefore, I am".  
> > 
> > 
> > The logic puzzle/thought experiment that I like to play with is 
> > this:  If there 
> > was no consciousness in all of creation, would creation exist?  Or; 
> > If there was 
> > "no thing" to be aware of all of this stuff, would there still be 
> > stuff?  The 
> > purely physical answer is yes it would all still be here, but no one 
> > would know 
> > it.  Which is pretty much the same thing as saying NO.  To exist 
> > implies a 
> > consciousness. If there was no consciousness there could be no 
> > universe.  I am 
> > aware, I am conscious. Does my awareness come to be and cease to be, 
> > when my 
> > body is no longer able to survive. The only logical answer is no. I 
> > believe 
> > that what we are is more that just electrochemical discharges 
> > across our 
> > synapses.  
> > 
> > 
> > Where does my imagination take me when I contemplate the end of this 
> > life.  My 
> > mind draws a blank so I'd have to say that we don't go anywhere.  My 
> > heart 
> > says that we go somewhere deep, warm, comforting, full of LOVE and 
> > Joy.  I feel 
> > that.  I feel that when I hold a new born child or when I am with 
> > someone who is 
> > dying.  
> > 
> > 
> > Last word, just in case you've read this far.  In order to reduce 
> > further 
> > confusion about me.  I have a Bachelor's Degree in Geology and a 
> > Master's in 
> > Geophysics.  After working for Texaco from 1979 through 1993. I left 
> > the oil 
> > business and went to Nursing School.  I work as a Registered 
> > Nurse.  I worked 
> > for 5 years on a Medical/Surgical/Oncology unit at a hospital. I then spent 
> > 10 
> > years working with hospitals as a Clinical Systems Analyst doing Healthcare 
> > IT.  
> > I left that and I've now been doing Hospice work as a nurse and as a 
> > volunteer. 
> > So you may see me hop around from physics to math to Geology to 
> > Medicine.  Oh, 
> > and I started my college training as a classical musician.
> > 
> > B 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Find what makes your heart sing…and do it! 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>
> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Mon, September 24, 2012 6:27:09 PM
> > Subject: [Zen] eternity and you
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > thank you B...for the birthday wishes
> > 
> > .. so B...
> > . who are you really?..speak more of Thee and pray who are YOU?
> > 
> > .. sorry i meant to write the "blue blue yonder."
> > ..why would i question youR take on life?
> > .why would i deny your understanding and your learning of life?..
> > 
> > .. why are you striking me with a hammer if i do not see it your way?.
> > 
> > ...  is THIS the fundamentalist in you.. there isa little bit of fascism 
> > in 
> > every human heart...
> > ... i do not understand what you believe the "blue blue yonder" and the 
> > "never 
> > never never land" mean to you...IF anything?
> > 
> >  my take is:
> > 
> > ..the endlessness of the universe,
> >  the timeless of time.
> > 
> >  the no return of this body as it is 
> > 
> > ...when you B depart from your mortal coil the body as it is now/ here.
> > 
> > .where will you go:..?????.
> > 
> > ."the never never land"....the "blue blue yonder."
> > 
> > ..what did you have in mind..?
> > .meaning where does your imagination lead you?
> > 
> > what is time?
> >  you speak of billions of years
> > in who's language do you speak?
> > 
> >  human
> > 
> > time is timeless
> >  the universe is timeless...
> >  there is no time
> > 
> >  in one's mind's eye
> >  there is only one universe
> >  and that universe is you
> > 
> > without you
> >  what can you possible see? think? or feel?
> > in the never never land?
> > 
> > merle
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > Happy birthday Merle.
> > 
> >   My inital college degrees are Geology and Geophysics.  In 
> > geology we speak of 
> > hundreds of millions of years, just as Joe might speak in terms 
> > of billions or 
> > million millions of years and even those chunks of time are but an instant 
> > in 
> > eternity.  Life on earth began 600 million years ago, the reign 
> > of the dinosaurs 
> > lasted less that 150 million years. Humanity's earliest ancestors didn't 
> > show up 
> > until less that 5 million years ago. The last Ice Age ended 12,000 years 
> > ago. The first domesticated animals, 10,000 years ago. The first 
> > evidence of 
> > writing 4,000 years ago.  Each human life lasts but 100 years, that's 
> > 0.00000017th the span of all life, 0.000000005th the span of the age of the 
> > known universe.  We live on a planet which seems significant yet 
> > 1,300,000 Earths could fit inside of our Sun and that Sun is only a 
> > medium sized 
> > star in a universe of uncountable stars (billions and billions according to 
> > Carl 
> > Sagan).  From the furthest known reaches of known space our 
> > sun could not be 
> > seen.  
> > 
> > 
> > This is my perspective regarding Zen. First the concept of 
> > Infinite Time and 
> > Space. Huge, beyond imaging. An infinite Infinity of Infinities is still 
> > nothing. It is no time or space at all. Given that infinite space and 
> > infinite 
> > time and given the demonstrated size and length of our physical 
> > existence and 
> > percieving myself as that point of being within the greater context of time 
> > and 
> > space. Who am I?
> > 
> > You are no closer to that "blue blue younger....the never never land", 
> > beyond 
> > the beyond, than you ever were or ever will be.  Cogito Ergo Sum or in 
> > my own 
> > words I know that I am experiencing something.  You can deny what I am 
> > saying 
> > but if I see you I will hit you with a hammer and then let's see if what I 
> > say 
> > is not so.
> > B 
> > 
> > 
> > Find what makes your heart sing…and do it! 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>
> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sun, September 23, 2012 4:57:28 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Zen] the green dragon
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  jesus edgar...i was thinking which dragon was edgar..and it was red my 
> > answer 
> > long before i read this...at 8:00pm
> > ..what am i psychic or what?... and i am think grey dragon for KG..... 
> > ????????
> > which dragon am i .?..i know but who else knows..
> > . and folks happy birthday for me..today.. 23rd sept.
> >  another year older and closer to the blue blue younger ....the never 
> > never 
> > land.
> > 
> > .. enjoy your day.. 
> > one of the dragons!
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > Bill's dragon is green but mine is the red Welsh dragon.
> > 
> > No wonder we are always going round and round!
> > 
> > Edgar
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sep 21, 2012, at 11:11 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
> > 
> >   
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  ah so we must google to see what the green dragon can and cannot 
> > >do...is this 
> > >you bill...are you calling?...merle
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >I cannot prove that, but you can by coming close to him.
> > > 
> > >anthony
> > >
> > >
> > >From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>
> > >To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> 
> > >Sent: Saturday, 22 September 2012, 6:35
> > >Subject: [Zen] the green dragon
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  goodness me.... is bill!!!!!!!!!!! that dangerous?
> > >
> > >
> > >..he might be all fire and breathing the breath of  the green dragon 
> > >upon us
> > >
> > >
> > > is this his way of protecting himself lest we discover his true 
> > >identity which 
> > >may be the living buddha?.
> > >
> > >
> > >.merle
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >Merle,
> > > 
> > >I have hired a demon to protect me from enlightened people, such as Bill!. 
> > >To 
> > >prevent you being harmed by him, you better pretend not to be enlightened, 
> > >even 
> > >if you are.
> > > 
> > >Anthony
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >yes watch out anthony..i bite..merle
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >Anthony,
> > >
> > >Be careful not to 'twist things around' or 'change the subject'. Merle 
> > >does not 
> > >like that.
> > >
> > >In this case you're obviously 'twisting and changing' because the 'gospel' 
> > >to 
> > >which Merle refers is in the New Testament, not the Old Testament.
> > >
> > >Shame on you!
> > >
> > >...Bill!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>




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