Joe,

Thanks for your response.

I have been a formal student of two Japanese Zen Buddhist teachers and a more 
casual student of a Korean teacher.  I have never talked or had any contact 
with Chinese teachers (I assume you're referring to 'Chan Buddhism') before 
JMJM joined the forum.  I have also had more than just a few discussions with a 
person who fits the description you made below - a philosophy professor who 
specialized in Plato and did receive Inca from a Korean Zen Master.

The two Japanese teachers were very similar but one had been the student of the 
other.  One emphasized Rinzai and one Soto, but both used a number of 
techniques in their programs.

The Korean teacher mainly used koans but that was not my relationship with him.

The philosophy professor spent most of his time trying to show the similarities 
between zen and Plato.  That was interesting on one level, but not something 
that really seemed important to me.  I did like to see how what seemed to be 
the same things represented in very different manners.  That seemed to me to 
speak more to communication about or teaching techniques employed in zen 
training rather than zen practice itself.

What little knowledge of Chinese Chan Buddhism comes from reading JMJM's posts 
and some dialog with him.  I have a good impression of it but their emphasis on 
'chi' and 'chakras' leave me cold.  Since I believe such things are Samara I 
see those topics as teaching techniques at best and misinformation at worst.

Now I just sit shikantaza (just sit, no-mind or empty-mind).  My practice is to 
continue to more completely bring no-mind (Buddha Nature) up off the cushion 
and more fully integrate it into my daily life.

I also like to jump on waterbeds from time to time.

...Bill!

--- In [email protected], "desert_woodworker" <desert_woodworker@...> 
wrote:
>
> Bill,
> 
> What "you" (one) receive(s) by way of training depends on who you study with.
> 
> I have felt for long that the western successors of Japanese teachers were 
> beginning to really water-down the practice, and its integrity.  (It will 
> bounce back after a few generations, I suspect.  The world is in no hurry, if 
> you haven't noticed; and, Darwinism operates in all quarters).
> 
> I've practiced with both American and Australian successors of Japanese 
> teachers; and, with original Chinese teachers.  I feel more at home with the 
> latter, and I find more awakenings happening in their midst than in the 
> formers's midst.  It's *very* clear.
> 
> What I offer is only one man's "take"; but I have been around a bit in the 
> past 35 years of formal practice, and I thank my lucky stars.
> 
> What I see as most destructive to the integrity of Zen practice is the 
> western psychologization of the underpinnings of the tradition.  The Jungian 
> stuff imposed by Jungian Analysts who are also dharma heirs of earlier 
> Western teachers or Japanese teachers is especially worrying to one who has a 
> hope for Western Zen practice following Japanese lines.  But, again, that 
> line may regain health in a few generations.
> 
> This is why I follow exclusively Chinese lines, and help to give them a push. 
>  If a Western successor of a Japanese teacher needs a push, I will be sure to 
> push him or her too, especially gladly, and quickly retreat for ever.
> 
> This emphasis is mine, it's not for everyone.  I bear no enmity; only amity 
> for closest folks, no matter who taught them.
> 
> Cheers; strong practice!,
> 
> --Joe
> 
> > "billsmart" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> >
> > This is an interesting article by Dosho Mike Port about what he sees are
> > the benefits and detriments the Western Baby Boomers have made to zen
> > culture.
>




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