Edgar, I was expecting something like 'levitation' or 'walking on water'. They would be 'supernatural...Bill!
--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Yours for starters! > :-) > > Edgar > > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 8:37 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > In fact I DEFY you to describe to me a human behavior that is not > > natural...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > I told you 'OK' is another kettle of fish. 'OK' is a relative judgement. > > > > > > If you come to my property and do something that I think is not OK I may > > > do something to you that you would describe as not OK. > > > > > > And yes, all that is natural behavior. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > So if I come visit then whatever I do to your property is OK? Because > > > > since I'm a human anything I do is 'natural'. > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 7:29 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > Whether natural processes are 'OK' or not is another kettle of fish. > > > > > > > > > > Some natural processes may be inconvenient or even destructive to > > > > > some or all species. Whether they're 'OK' or not is purely a human > > > > > judgement. > > > > > > > > > > Was the meteor strike which caused the ice age (or whatever) and > > > > > resulted in the extinction of many of the then existing life forms > > > > > which paved the way for human evolution 'OK'? > > > > > > > > > > It sure was 'OK' for us, but not for tyrannosaurus rex. > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > > > > > > > By your perverted logic it is totally OK for man to be destroying > > > > > > the planet because that's just a natural process. > > > > > > > > > > > > Grow up and get real. Zen is not clever sophisms, it's reality... > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 10, 2012, at 6:20 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What's REALLY important is that it's been framed wrong. It's been > > > > > > > framed as humans vs. nature, or as you put it humans > > > > > > > 'interfering' in nature. As long as humans think they are not > > > > > > > part of nature and taht all their action are natural there will > > > > > > > be this problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When a beaver builds a dam is that interfering with nature? When > > > > > > > a squirrel shits in the woods is that interfering with nature? > > > > > > > When a human splits an atom is that interfering with nature? When > > > > > > > a human manipulates DNA is that interfering with nature? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the quality that humans have that other animals don't > > > > > > > have that renders them capable of interference - IYO? (I just > > > > > > > made that up, IYO = 'in your opinion') > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Come on Bill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In human discourse about Man's impact on nature, that's the way > > > > > > > > it's defined, and the whole issue is framed, as you well know... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 9, 2012, at 8:45 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This was a VERY SERIOUS response. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why is it that you think the things that humans do are > > > > > > > > > 'unnatural' or against nature but the things that other life > > > > > > > > > does is 'natural' and okay? A friend of mine very wisely > > > > > > > > > (IMO)once suggested that all ethics should be applied to > > > > > > > > > humans and other life forms equally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the quality that you believe separates humans from > > > > > > > > > the rest of nature so that human activities and artifacts can > > > > > > > > > be labeled as 'interference'? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Come on, it's a serious issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 9, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Joe wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And Humans are just the tip of the iceberg, too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know why plants and animals insist on interfering > > > > > > > > > > > with the way Nature works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For example, on the early earth there was a nice > > > > > > > > > > > atmosphere without oxygen. But blasted Cyanobacteria > > > > > > > > > > > evolved which like to sip the methane and other gases > > > > > > > > > > > there were back then, and started polluting the > > > > > > > > > > > atmosphere with ...Oxygen! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then -- wouldn't you know -- other organisms formed which > > > > > > > > > > > turned CO2 into even MORE Oxygen, with a help from light > > > > > > > > > > > from the Sun. The nerve! They got away with it, though, > > > > > > > > > > > because there were no Police. The rug was pulled out from > > > > > > > > > > > under Nature yet again! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Later, some animals evolved, which USE the oxygen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Much later, some of these animals of the Mammal variety > > > > > > > > > > > called "Beavers" began to INSIST that they interfere with > > > > > > > > > > > the stately FLOW of river tributaries and streams, by > > > > > > > > > > > ...damming them up! Such nerve. You may be sure that this > > > > > > > > > > > caused inundations upstream, and occasional floods > > > > > > > > > > > downstream when the dams burst. Havoc. Bye, bye, Nature! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The nerve of these organisms: Micro-organisms, Plants, > > > > > > > > > > > and Animals. Always interfering with the way Nature works! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At least on the Moon there is no such interference, > > > > > > > > > > > there's just a continual, thin, rain of meteorites > > > > > > > > > > > pummeling the surface, and no atmosphere to make things > > > > > > > > > > > rust. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oops!, some exotic Mammals left some footprints on the > > > > > > > > > > > Moon, and some machinery, during the last fifty years. > > > > > > > > > > > WHY must there always be such interference? The Moon had > > > > > > > > > > > been Nature's nice, quiet, haven for rock and dust for so > > > > > > > > > > > long. Why must things always go downhill? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/7/2012 9:26 PM, Edgar Owen wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do humans always insist on interfering with the > > > > > > > > > > > > > way nature works? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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