Bill!, Don't worry - it could well be me! I just don't see where belief comes into it. Ritual - yes. But even that is only a means, or tool, towards (or for deepening) awakening. I see it more as a system of efficacy rather than a system of belief.
Mike ________________________________ From: Bill! <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 21 November 2012, 1:08 Subject: [Zen] Re: the way: Buddha-hood in the supermarket Mike, I think you've misunderstood me or I you. I'm saying that zen is NOT a religion and that Buddhism is. Buddhism is a system of belief based PARTIALLY on what Buddha taught but as practiced today has embellished that a lot. I would also say Christianity is based on the teachings of Jesus, but the two are certainly not the same thing. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > Bill!, > > I don't think it's as straight forward as that tho. There's really no such > thing as 'Buddhism', as it comes in so many different forms. I also disagree > with you that faith is an essential part of what the Buddha taught. He taught > the Dharma, and that this has to be experienced, not believed. > > > Mike > > > ________________________________ > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, 21 November 2012, 1:00 > Subject: [Zen] Re: the way: Buddha-hood in the supermarket > > >  > Mike, > > Of course all this depends on your definition of 'religion'. My casual > definition of it is 'a system of belief based on faith'. To me that includes > Buddhism and science. > > Zen is not based on faith (or knowledge), it's based on experience. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], mike brown <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > Bill!, > > > > Dunno. Sounds like a false dichotomy to me. The effect of both is the same. > > It seems to me tho, that a Zen Buddhist who attends sesshins etc. is > > someone who 'get's' Zen, but is also paying their dues (thru gratitude and > > propagation). > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Wednesday, 21 November 2012, 0:36 > > Subject: [Zen] Re: the way: Buddha-hood in the supermarket > > > > > >  > > I just wanted to point out to everyone that I actually AGREE with Merle - > > zen is NOT a religion. Buddhism however is. > > > > I think as far as me agreeing with Merle's posts that makes about 5 out of > > 284 so far... > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >  zen is not a religion.... prove to me it is?..merle > > > > > > > > >  > > > Merle, > > > > > > No, isolation is not my thing. > > > > > > It's worked miracles for certain sages. > > > > > > Its main benefits are available at Sesshin, the 7-day retreat that is a > > > traditional training ground for Zen practitioners, aside from daily > > > practice at home or at our local zen center. > > > > > > Some people take vacations: THAT'S not isolation (unless they go outback > > > of the Outback). > > > > > > Sesshin is like vacation, except with RULES. And hard work. ;-) > > > > > > And you might come home fully awake, you never know. > > > > > > Anyway, that's the way of our religion. > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > you talk of isolation..do you really think it is such a "mind blowing" > > > > activity?. > > > > > >
