Chris, In denying enlightenment (what I prefer to call realization) is even possible you deny the whole essence of Zen and contradict what everyone on this list is here for...
And you deny the realization experiences of the others on this list as well. Is that your intention? Or do I misunderstand you? Edgar On Nov 22, 2012, at 12:13 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: > > > On Nov 22, 2012 8:04 AM, "Chris Austin-Lane" wrote: > > > > Bearing in mind that all things fall apart, so that some quality > > "enlightened" cannot possibly be statically true of some Composite object > > like a person (I.e. your statement is void of meaning), it is certainly > > true that one can eyeball to eyeball have Buddha seeing Buddha as it ever > > was. > > > > I would hold this very listserv up as an example of how words alone do not > > capture enough of our personhood to enable that recognition. Even in > > person, it is a matter of the now, not of ongoing duration or > > certification. Witness how our most (non-lurking) experienced > > practitioners are unable to resist judging each other as zen or not. > > > > Speaking of the transience of our very "selves" I read a really interesting > > book, Brain On Fire, about a woman who went totally insane for about two > > months because her body started producing antibodies to a crucial glutamate > > receptor on her brain cells. She was days away from being treated as a > > recalcitrant schizophrenic when the found a doctor who could diagnose and > > treat the antibody disorder and return her to ordinary mind. > > > > If you think you "enlightenment" gives you some permanent break from > > delusions, good luck with that thought. > > > > Thanks, > > Chris Austin-Lane > > +1-301-270-6524 > > > > On Nov 22, 2012, at 4:53, Edgar Owen <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> Merle and Joe, > >> > >> The answer is easy. > >> > >> To the extent YOU are enlightened you know when anyone else is enlightened. > >> > >> But lots of unenlightened and gullible people are fooled by false gurus > >> who claim to be enlightened. > >> > >> And lots of people who aren't enlightened don't recognize the > >> enlightenment of those who are enlightened even if they are right in front > >> of their faces.... > >> > >> Edgar > >> > >> > >> > >> On Nov 22, 2012, at 1:38 AM, Merle Lester wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> yes joe..how do we know when the master /guru /teacher is > >>> enlightened?..merle > >>> > >>> Merle, > >>> > >>> Yes, good point! > >>> > >>> Did it get lost?: The question you were anxious to have answered. It ran > >>> like: > >>> > >>> "How can we tell if the master is really enlightened, or not?", > >>> > >>> or something close to that. > >>> > >>> So please have a go at an answer, Sensei. > >>> > >>> --Joe > >>> > >>> > Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > Â what question?..merle > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >
