Hi Bill,Actually my writing was a little screwed up. I didn't actually mean that it has no place in a zen discussion, but I meant that because of the way in which everything thing comes into being, can there actually be anything considered good/bad? That's just feeding into duality. Didnt mean there's anything wrong with any discussion.Cheers.Scott
--- On Thu, 31/1/13, Bill! <[email protected]> wrote: From: Bill! <[email protected]> Subject: [Zen] Re: war criminals To: [email protected] Received: Thursday, 31 January, 2013, 4:37 AM Bummy, We are very lax here on allowing most any topic to be discussed. We have two moderators, Edgar and me, who would jointly make the decision if a discussion topic, discussion direction or a particular member became objectionable to the point that we agreed we needed to stop it. I disagree with your statement below that because we aspire to 'follow the Tao - the Way' we have no responsibility. We have the responsibility to assure that we are following the Tao and not some ego-centric, self-centered attachment that we have deceived ourselves into believing is the 'Way'. That is our practice. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "Bummy McNeedy" wrote: > > > I see no reason why the term war criminal has any validity in a zen > discussion group. Being that there is only a stream of thought and action > pouring through one and/or all, then there is no responsibility. Everything > is, as it should be. Also: grieve not for the alive nor the dead.... > > > --- In [email protected], "iain" wrote: > > > > > > > > You might find the research paper below interesting Suresh. > > > > Already several seconds before we consciously make a decision its outcome > > can be predicted from unconscious activity in the brain. This is shown in a > > study by scientists from the Max Planck Institute for Human Cognitive and > > Brain Sciences in Leipzig, in collaboration with the Charité University > > Hospital and the Bernstein Center for Computational Neuroscience in Berlin. > > > > http://www.mpg.de/567905/pressRelease20080414 > > > > > > --- In [email protected], SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: > > > > > > Dear Merle, > > > > > > Please note yesterday it was revealed to me that, the form (any form) > > > is bound by action and reaction. Formless(space) is free. Just take > > > example of heavenly bodies they are bound by a law which was > > > discovered by Newton. That is all bodies move in a straight direction > > > unless or until it was intervene by other object. Since there are > > > innumerable bodies, they bound to come across close to other body when > > > their nature of being moving in one direction. So there bound to be > > > interaction between bodies, and the result will be as per law of > > > forces. Suppose on a moving body which is moving in the direction of > > > east I apply one force from north direction, it will move south east. > > > If I apply force from two different directions, then it will move in > > > resultant direction. > > > > > > Suppose I apply force in multiple directions which way the body will > > > move? Definitely it will move resultant of all force directions. > > > > > > The same rule applicable to human bodies also. Even in the discussions > > > in this forum, please note for example Merle will be having certain > > > view on life and she is moving in that direction, then Joe comes and > > > tells her something and then Mike tells something, then I come and > > > tell something. Then certainly some changes happen in Merle. Her mind > > > will be thinking resultant of all these discussion forces. Then her > > > body reacts based on her mental thinking, similarly with everyone. So > > > Mind is a field in which all these forces take place and body is just > > > obedient servant of mind will follow what mind says. > > > > > > Mind actions are based on various forces acted upon it. But for those > > > force who is responsible? Why I should join this forum? And discuss > > > like this with you, so that your thinking changes. It means in me some > > > one applied some force so I joined this forum. So my actions are not > > > mine alone, it is the resultant of all forces (influences) of the > > > environment in which this body is in. I am a life energy having taken > > > this body, which is again due to past actions moving in an environment > > > subjected to all kind of forces some actions are performed by this > > > body, which again influences some other body-mind. > > > > > > So in your argument you state War Criminals, whom are you > > > representing, the one who initiated the war or one who perform war? > > > The one who initiated also bound by forces of environment just like > > > you. Your environment was different, and hence you follow zen and be > > > peaceful, their environment was different and hence they initiated the > > > war. They know not what they are doing (Jesus). Similarly the one who > > > perform war are bound by environment. The performer is really innocent > > > he was doing his duties as ordered by his seniors/boss. Hence > > > performer don't have guilty and live happily. > > > > > > So there are no individual actions. All actions are resultant of > > > forces. And you are the field of awareness in which all action takes > > > place, which you can only see. It is like watching movie and feels > > > like hero or heroine and enjoys or suffers as like them. > > > > > > In fact you are an observer and no such actions of hero or heroine > > > bound by you, but still you suffer or enjoy. Can you change the scenes > > > of a movie? NO. It was already directed by somebody. It is the same, > > > this whole cosmic is directed by someone, you are only to watch. > > > > > > In truth the watcher is the director and he only created all these > > > objects. That realization comes later once you know you are pure > > > consciousness and not this body, which you possess. > > > > > > Best regards > > > Suresh > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Thanks and best regards > > > J.Suresh > > > New No.3, Old No.7, > > > Chamiers road - 1st Lane, > > > Alwarpet, > > > Chennai - 600018 > > > Ph: 044 42030947 > > > Mobile: 91 9884071738 > > > > > >
