--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" wrote:
>
> ...and, Carl,
>
> Heterodoxy is fine by me, too. Have at it if that is your ken.
>
> I only write about Zen as I know it, which is Zen as it is practiced, and
> realized.
>
> I'm a practitioner. You too?
>
> Mostly, I speak about practice and its upshot, and not much about theory.
> But I'm game for theory, anytime. I know that Madhyamika and Yogacara inform
> Zen philosophy, to the extent that there is any. Ch'an and Zen is not the
> Teaching School, as you know.
>
I don't personally believe Zens origins have much to do with Buddhism, as far
as I know it originated later and outside India. So my inclination would be to
look at actual roots, not later adaptations.
An atheist materialist can be a Buddhist as well.
> But I'm off topic in this thread, about that. Just a heads-up.
>
> They say it doesn't take just one to ruin a forum topic's flow, it takes two.
> There are 400 here who may also be as interested in your info as I am.
>
> Don't -- Please don't -- take an easy-out, and clam-up about the
> 'Illuminati'. I use the inverted commas until you substantiate something.
>
I don't believe anything can substitute personal experience. But for what it's
worth I believe they have written some books in something of a recruitment
drive, the numerous ones by William Walker Atkinson in the main deal with
techniques for mental domination for personal gain. Alice Bailey also mentions
a mind control technique called "overshadowing" in her books, and has written
something about their agenda in "Externalization of the Hierarchy". Benjamin
Creme is one of their spokespersons today. I still believe you are hostile to
the subject (as it dos not fit your view of Zen, and general prejudice), so I
am disclined to discuss this further.
> If it was a joke, fine. Why leave us hanging?
>
> Maybe I have a too-serious acceptance of others... .
>
> --Joe
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Carl" wrote:
> >
> > As I said I'm not interested in these games, so this subject is closed on
> > my part. If you were genuinely interested in the subject, you would not
> > have this approach of attempting to discredit it publicly and get the group
> > back to discussing your "orthodox" views of Zen (that you have displayed in
> > other posts).
>
------------------------------------
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
