Bill!, And, you know: It's not that "the mind" has cut off anything. It's just that, in the awakened state, there *is* no thinking, and there is no movement of anything in the mind. There's no blade cutting, and no shutter closing. It's just that there's:
"No bird singing". And, "Body and mind have dropped away". They're not metaphors. Yet, we can READ; We can do advanced mathematics. But, boy!, is it different! When there is no voice in your head, no thought or movement of Anything, no holding-on, nor ability to hold-on, to anything. We see there's no NECESSITY to hold on! This takes some getting used to, if you want to perform at/to what you thought was your previous, high, necessary (?) level. But you find that, holding-on, keeping-in-mind, was just a bad habit. And, limiting. Badly. It is called, generically, "Attachment". I don't know now what formed the tendency toward it: Maybe learning to read, the way it was taught. Maybe learning to do Math, the way it was taught. Maybe reading science texts, the way we were taught, and not enough novels. Maybe programming, the way it is taught. Maybe programming, the way it is practiced. Learning to drive did not cause this. Learning to ride a bike did not cause this. Learning to walk didn't cause this. Did I mention before that Intellectuals are the ones who Zen teachers say have the hardest time entering the Gate of Zen practice? They've got good statistics on the matter. ;-) It's just that Intellectuals' academic training has given them the world's biggest handicap. It's not insurmountable. And, BTW, as Ms. Yoko Ono's voice is recorded as saying on "Revolution 9" of the Beatles' White Album (and I give her her due, on this lucky shot): "You must become naked". And: ha ha. You don't do that by effort, nor by thought, nor dialectic, neither Hegelian nor Nagarjuna-istic (Madhyamika-styled). At least not in the Zen sect we don't. That's final! and final!, ...because it had no beginning. The Korean master is Jake with me. Not a Dharma name, no. With kind regards, --Joe / (nudist-Buddhist-balloonist-flutist-cartoonist-parachutist) PS Sahn's "Cut off all thinking" I feel comes from Wu-Men's (Mumon's), "You must cut off the mind-road", of the first koan. It's no fault of translation, just a fault of Edgar's uptake. Perhaps those with a fault of uptake just need to supplement the diet: as we age, we often do, as uptake ability is said to diminish in some. It's no shame. And nothing anyone needs to (try to) hide. --J. > "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > Edgar, > > I think what he means when he says "...read with a mind that has cut off all > thinking" is to read without preconceptions, without making judgments and > without coming to conclusions (forming attachments to what you've read). > > But, this is kind of orthodox - so BEWARE! > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > A new low in total New Age comic book Zen crap! > > > > It's impossible to read with a mind that has cut off all thinking. And most > > emphatically NO books are the truth much less ALL books... > > > > I do agree that the barking of a dog or the crowing of the rooster are > > better Zen teachings than the books of the Zen masters though... > > > > Maybe it's a mistranslation problem???? ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
