Bill!, 

Ok, sounds reasonable ; )

Just out of interest tho, I think you can still enjoy a beautiful sunset 
without the mental chatter you alluded to. Same as awe. It's just a part of the 
holistic framework you mentioned. Beng a stunned mullet isn't 'experiencing' 
Buddha Nature either.

Mike



--- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote:
>
> Mike,
> 
> Good question and the answer is 'no'.
> 
> Experience does not have to be dualistic (subject/object).  It can be 
> holistic, and in fact holistic experience IS Buddha Nature.  Dualistic 
> experience (I am experiencing a beautiful sunset)is not pure experience.  
> It's a post-processing of the experience by your discriminating mind - your 
> intellect.  It's forced into a dualistic framework and often subjected to 
> judgements and categorizations.
> 
> ...Bill!
> 
> --- In [email protected], "mike" <uerusuboyo@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Bill!,
> > 
> > Aren't experiences also illusory in the sense that an experience requires 
> > someone to have the experience?
> > 
> > Mike 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Joe,
> > > 
> > > Right, sort of.
> > > 
> > > To be a 'rationalist' is to be someone who depends on rationality which 
> > > is clearly illusory.
> > > 
> > > As someone who practices zen which is based entirely on experience I 
> > > would hope I would be an 'experientialist' - or a 'realist'.
> > > 
> > > ...Bill!
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bill!,
> > > > 
> > > > I'd say the concept may be rational, although there is not an empirical 
> > > > demonstration or proof of existence of such a being.
> > > > 
> > > > We know too that various Doctors of the Church did their darnedest 
> > > > along rational lines, chief among them Augustine.
> > > > 
> > > > --Joe
> > > > 
> > > > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't see anything rational about the concept of God at all...Bill!
> > > >
> > >
> >
>




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