Thanks, taking responsibility there Bill!  I ducked it.

--Joe

> "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Merle and Joe,
> 
> I hope you don't mind me butting in...
> 
> You asked, "Who was the very first to embrace zen?".
> 
> The answer all depends on what you mean by "embrace zen".
> 
> If by "embrace zen" you mean "realize Buddha Nature" I would say you'd have 
> to go back to the very origin of life, whenever that was.  If you want to 
> limit that to humans I guess you'd have to go back to the first human, and of 
> course I don't know who that was.  The Bible names this person 'Adam', and of 
> course 'Eve'.  I think at first they lived in a state in which they 
> constantly realized Buddha Nature.  This was called The Garden of Eden.  They 
> were in constant communion with God then.  It's only when they ate the fruit 
> of The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil that they were kicked out of 
> the Garden.  To me that means when humans evolved to a point where they begin 
> to think dualistically (subject/object - to rationalize), that ability began 
> to conceal Buddha Nature.  So in the beginning (whenever that was) everyone 
> realized Buddha Nature all the time, but when humans became more and more 
> rational they moved farther and farther away from that.
> 
> If by "embrace zen" you mean who was the first one to realize and identify 
> Buddha Nature in the linage that we now identify as Zen Buddhism, the very 
> first one would have to be Guatuama Buddha, or maybe you could say the first 
> student that he prompted to realize Buddha Nature - Mahakashapa - during his 
> 'Wordless Sermon at Vulture Peak'.
> 
> ...Bill!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> >  hey joe...
> > 
> > if you don't mind me butting in... 
> > 
> > who was the very first person to embrace zen?... 
> > 
> > or let's put it this way..the originator?..
> > 
> > surely it's not something startlingly new?...
> > 
> > surely even in the cave era..( early man)  there would have been a few zen 
> > folk amongst the midst..
> > 
> > tis it not a  way to view the world.... or interact with the world..
> > 
> > .and i was under the impression zen went to the nitty gritty..
> > 
> > the heart of the matter with out all the" fluff, bubble and endless reams 
> > of "homework" as you put it...
> > 
> > you dive into the cold salty pool head first so to speak....
> > 
> > your thoughts?..




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