Joe,

It's not really the Sanskrit terms I have a problem with.  It's the 
multitudinous differing translations of them into English that bothers me.

...Bill! 

--- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote:
>
> Bill!,
> 
> Now, now;
> 
> I sympathize with the difficulty some have in understanding the Sanskrit 
> technical terms "cold", but the fact is that they are precise, and carry 
> well-understood meaning.
> 
> That's why they exist; and persist.
> 
> Granted, for one who has not studied, and not assimilated them into the 
> understanding and the vocabulary, well, ...that person may as well be reading 
> Quantum Field-Theory, no?
> 
> And yet the vocabulary in both cases has *exact* signification.
> 
> Surely, one -- we -- can speak in common speech.  That is fine.  And then we 
> find, too, that a lot of agreement must be made on the fly about vocabulary 
> in mid-flight, during the course of the discussion.
> 
> I sense that *that* is a cause of much disagreement here in several threads.  
> It's mostly due to mis-understanding, caused by different "takes" on the 
> meaning of words, when impressed into service to act as technical terms.
> 
> In discussions of historical Buddhist philosophical schools' findings, it's 
> always good to know and to use the terms that those schools use.  It's more 
> true to our subject to do so.
> 
> Granted, somebody can try to speak about the workings of Quantum Mechanics 
> with you, but if you don't know the applicable mathematics, you will be lost 
> no matter how easily the common words roll off the tongue.  They just don't 
> hit the mark.
> 
> Very often, a close, intimate understanding of a topic, and a more skilful 
> *ability*, requires some homework: learning to read music; learning math; 
> learning the language of Wall Street and investing.
> 
> Discussion of the mind or the Buddha is no different.
> 
> Yes, make it up from scratch if you like; but expect misunderstanding at 
> *every* turn.  Such discussions never end.
> 
> Granted, we can use common speech to describe or discuss phenomenolgy, as my 
> Shihfu's disciple, Master Guo Jun does here, in giving a brief account of one 
> part of his awakening:
> 
> http://www.tricycle.com/web-exclusive/returning-home
> 
> ...but he is not engaging there in a discussion of Philosophy!, just 
> phenomenology... what he felt as the blinkers fell away.
> 
> And, it is wonderful!
> 
> But he is a fellow who can teach Yogacara and Madhyamika, in all their 
> technical and precise panoply.  And that is wonderful, too.  My Shifu taught 
> it to many of us in months'-long classes, and so it carries on through Guo 
> Jun's generation.  As well as in academic departments.  And in my living room.
> 
> --Joe
> 
> > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> >
> > Here's what I think it a good answer to this question by Bernie Glassman
> > who was the Senior Monk at ZCLA when I was attending there and later
> > became a full-fledged Zen Master.  He's since renounced his Zen Master
> > title and goes about his zen practice in a much more low-key and casual
> > manner.
> > It's refreshingly simple and to-the-point without any Buddhist or
> > Sanskrit mumbo-jumbo:
> > What is Enlightenment?
> > <http://zenpeacemakers.org/2013/03/what-is-enlightenment/>
>




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