Chris,

Well said....

Edgar


On Mar 30, 2013, at 12:25 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:

> 
> Everything is an opportunity to awaken, to let the notion of self collapse 
> under its contradictions allowing the weather to be felt in ever changing 
> wonder.
> 
> The monks did not notice this opportunity, and not every bloke in the states 
> notices it either, but the opportunities are as endless as our complaints.
> 
> Thanks,
> --Chris
> 301-270-6524
> On Mar 30, 2013 6:41 AM, "Edgar Owen" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> If that were true every bloke in America would be enlightened - at least in 
> the summer time.
> 
> Get real!
> 
> Edgar
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 30, 2013, at 2:09 AM, mike wrote:
> 
>>  
>> Bill!, Joe,
>> 
>> I was using the expression (with Siska) to express the idea that you'll know 
>> you've (unquestionably) experienced Buddha Nature the same way you know your 
>> iced-tea is cold when you sip it on a hot summer's day (paraphrasing the old 
>> story). There's nothing metaphysical about it. I think it's a bit silly (to 
>> be honest!) to talk about Buddha Nature not "knowing" if a drink is hot or 
>> cold. Buddha Nature is not some objective noun 'out here', but operates thru 
>> us. Hot and cold maybe relative, but you'll certainly know if your soup is 
>> hot if you drop it in your lap!
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Joe,
>> > 
>> > The Cleary translation is pretty much the same except the last response. 
>> > It is, "When it's cold, the cold kills you, when it's hot, the heat kills 
>> > you."
>> > 
>> > The translation I used was from Jivacandra, a zen blogger from San 
>> > Francisco. I don't know much about him but just wanted a version of the 
>> > koan I could cut and paste. His translation seemed to express the same 
>> > message to me - and that is when realizing Buddha Nature you are just 
>> > experiencing. There is no cold, no heat - Just THIS!
>> > 
>> > ...Bill!
>> > 
>> > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Bill!,
>> > > 
>> > > It's nice. Is that the Cleary? (transl.).
>> > > 
>> > > We practiced it in Tucson (seriously) with Pat Hawk Roshi, as:
>> > > 
>> > > "KILL yourself with heat and cold".
>> > > 
>> > > --Joe
>> > > 
>> > > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Joe,
>> > > > 
>> > > > The koan that's closest to what I think you want is Case 43 in THE 
>> > > > BLUE CLIFF RECORD - Tung Shan's No Cold or Heat
>> > > > 
>> > > > "A monk asked Tung-shan, "When cold and heat come, how can we avoid 
>> > > > them?"
>> > > > 
>> > > > Tung-shan said, "Why don't you go to the place where there is no cold 
>> > > > and no heat?"
>> > > > 
>> > > > The monk said, "What is the place where there is no cold and no heat?"
>> > > > 
>> > > > Tung-shan replied, "When cold comes, cold completes the monk; when 
>> > > > heat comes, heat totals the monk.""
>> > > > 
>> > > > ...Bill!
>> > > > 
>> > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Siska,
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > You are one stubborn Bodhisattva.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > Tasting warm or cold is "knowing" by the tongue. Are you the tongue?
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > All other knowings are fraudulent. Two-plus-two? Has no taste at 
>> > > > > all. It doesn't even stink.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > --Joe
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > PS Classic Zen story may be a koan. Let me look in Mumonkan. It has 
>> > > > > to do of course with drinking water and knowing for oneself whether 
>> > > > > it is warm or cold. Maybe Mumonkan Case One. Let's both see. Thanks 
>> > > > > if you'll tell us a better translation than "know". Anyway, "know" 
>> > > > > is jake with me, and everything else is then a scaled-down "know", 
>> > > > > begging to be called so.
>> > >
>> >
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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