Edgar, You did. Yet at the same time you denigrate Zen practices that have been helping people awaken for millennia. Awakening occurs when the mind stops moving *not* when it's turning as you suggest with your promotion of rational thinking. Just like the eye can't see itself looking nor the finger point towards itself - neither can we liberate ourselves from ordinary mind by using it. Zen uses practices to stop the mind moving and the intellect is practically the engine room of the mind. Even with a glimpse of Buddha Nature we still need to deepen it or risk it becoming just a memory or intellectual understanding of Reality. What you propose is so far removed from what Zen is. Your use of intellect/mind keeps us entangled and enmeshed within mind and kills the dynamic, fresh and intuitive inter-action with life that Zen is.
Mike --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > Merle, > > When I reply to a post I read the subject post thoroughly, and when I refer > to something someone else wrote I include actual cut-and-paste quotes when > convenient. If I interpret something on my own I always note that. At least > that's what I intend to do. If you catch me not doing that please bring it > to my attention. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Â bill...are we not all a tiny bit guilty of hearing only what we want to > > hear?..thank you for your advice and good vibes..peace be with you..merle > > Â > > Merle, > > > > I actually agree with 99% of what Edgar said below with the exception of > > his continuing misrepresentation of what I've said in my many previous > > posts - as usual. Edgar is a prime example of the line in one of Simon and > > Garfunkle's songs THE BOXER, "A man hears what he wants to hear and > > disregards the rest." Anyway, what Edgar refers to as "bring Zen to the > > world of forms" is referred to in zen literature as 'skillful means'. > > > > Remember what I've said before that I learned from the kindly Bodhisattvas > > who attend us when we fly, "Put on your own oxygen mask before attempting > > to help those around you." > > > > This is for two reasons: 1) If you aren't settled yourself you can't help > > others, 2) If you haven't figured out how to put on your own oxygen mask > > you can't as successfully help others. > > > > I hope you have a pleasant and fruitful encounter with the 'zen dude'. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > There is no simple answer. Because to teach other Buddhas in the world to > > > realize their own Buddhahood involves dealing with the world of forms, > > > and to do that one must study the world of forms which is of course > > > enormously complex. This btw is why those who think Zen doesn't involve > > > the rational mind to bring Zen into the world of forms are misguided. > > > It's a major error... > > > > > > Example: A martial arts master may embody Zen mind in his engagements but > > > no one would be stupid enough to think just sitting will make one a > > > martial arts master. That takes long engagement and study of the forms > > > involved. Only then can Zen mind activate those forms... > > > > > > Same with all manner of bringing Zen into the world of forms as is > > > required to teach others how to realize their Buddhahood. > > > > > > However it can be said that realizing the Buddha within yourself and > > > letting the Buddha within act through your form is the first step... > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 5, 2013, at 2:31 AM, Merle Lester wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > butting in edgar..how do you go about doing this oh please teach..merle > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > > > It is not just a matter of people practicing and doing everything > > > > themselves, but of actively teaching all the Buddhas one meets to > > > > better recognize and manifest their Buddhahood... > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 4, 2013, at 7:39 PM, Joe wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > >> Merle, > > > >> > > > >> Buddha rules nothing out. In fact, everything is included, by default. > > > >> > > > >> But he/she is *powerless* to turn peoples' heads around if they do not > > > >> practice. It's a simple matter. Just not a matter of comprehending. > > > >> Transformation is not a matter of "OK", and "alright", and "got it". > > > >> > > > >> The old song says "Waking up is HARD to do." ;-) > > > >> > > > >> But I say, in good rhyming fashion: "Just begin, and CON-TIN-UE." > > > >> > > > >> ...and I have good company, saying that. They know who they are. > > > >> > > > >> --Joe > > > >> > > > >> > Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > so edgar..with all the atrocities being committed on this planet as > > > >> > i type..is buddha there too?..merle > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
