Mike, Obviously you don't understand what I'm saying...
Edgar On Apr 6, 2013, at 10:03 AM, mike wrote: > Edgar, > > You did. Yet at the same time you denigrate Zen practices that have been > helping people awaken for millennia. Awakening occurs when the mind stops > moving *not* when it's turning as you suggest with your promotion of rational > thinking. Just like the eye can't see itself looking nor the finger point > towards itself - neither can we liberate ourselves from ordinary mind by > using it. Zen uses practices to stop the mind moving and the intellect is > practically the engine room of the mind. Even with a glimpse of Buddha Nature > we still need to deepen it or risk it becoming just a memory or intellectual > understanding of Reality. What you propose is so far removed from what Zen > is. Your use of intellect/mind keeps us entangled and enmeshed within mind > and kills the dynamic, fresh and intuitive inter-action with life that Zen is. > > Mike > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > > > Merle, > > > > When I reply to a post I read the subject post thoroughly, and when I refer > > to something someone else wrote I include actual cut-and-paste quotes when > > convenient. If I interpret something on my own I always note that. At least > > that's what I intend to do. If you catch me not doing that please bring it > > to my attention. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Â bill...are we not all a tiny bit guilty of hearing only what we want to > > > hear?..thank you for your advice and good vibes..peace be with you..merle > > > Â > > > Merle, > > > > > > I actually agree with 99% of what Edgar said below with the exception of > > > his continuing misrepresentation of what I've said in my many previous > > > posts - as usual. Edgar is a prime example of the line in one of Simon > > > and Garfunkle's songs THE BOXER, "A man hears what he wants to hear and > > > disregards the rest." Anyway, what Edgar refers to as "bring Zen to the > > > world of forms" is referred to in zen literature as 'skillful means'. > > > > > > Remember what I've said before that I learned from the kindly > > > Bodhisattvas who attend us when we fly, "Put on your own oxygen mask > > > before attempting to help those around you." > > > > > > This is for two reasons: 1) If you aren't settled yourself you can't help > > > others, 2) If you haven't figured out how to put on your own oxygen mask > > > you can't as successfully help others. > > > > > > I hope you have a pleasant and fruitful encounter with the 'zen dude'. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > There is no simple answer. Because to teach other Buddhas in the world > > > > to realize their own Buddhahood involves dealing with the world of > > > > forms, and to do that one must study the world of forms which is of > > > > course enormously complex. This btw is why those who think Zen doesn't > > > > involve the rational mind to bring Zen into the world of forms are > > > > misguided. It's a major error... > > > > > > > > Example: A martial arts master may embody Zen mind in his engagements > > > > but no one would be stupid enough to think just sitting will make one a > > > > martial arts master. That takes long engagement and study of the forms > > > > involved. Only then can Zen mind activate those forms... > > > > > > > > Same with all manner of bringing Zen into the world of forms as is > > > > required to teach others how to realize their Buddhahood. > > > > > > > > However it can be said that realizing the Buddha within yourself and > > > > letting the Buddha within act through your form is the first step... > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 5, 2013, at 2:31 AM, Merle Lester wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > butting in edgar..how do you go about doing this oh please > > > > > teach..merle > > > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > > > > > It is not just a matter of people practicing and doing everything > > > > > themselves, but of actively teaching all the Buddhas one meets to > > > > > better recognize and manifest their Buddhahood... > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 4, 2013, at 7:39 PM, Joe wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Merle, > > > > >> > > > > >> Buddha rules nothing out. In fact, everything is included, by > > > > >> default. > > > > >> > > > > >> But he/she is *powerless* to turn peoples' heads around if they do > > > > >> not practice. It's a simple matter. Just not a matter of > > > > >> comprehending. Transformation is not a matter of "OK", and > > > > >> "alright", and "got it". > > > > >> > > > > >> The old song says "Waking up is HARD to do." ;-) > > > > >> > > > > >> But I say, in good rhyming fashion: "Just begin, and CON-TIN-UE." > > > > >> > > > > >> ...and I have good company, saying that. They know who they are. > > > > >> > > > > >> --Joe > > > > >> > > > > >> > Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > so edgar..with all the atrocities being committed on this planet > > > > >> > as i type..is buddha there too?..merle > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
