Mike, Exactly! Bill denies most of reality all the while successfully living within that rational part of reality...
Isn't that called multiple personality disorder? :-) Edgar On Apr 16, 2013, at 9:56 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone > > From: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: Hello > Sent: Wed, Apr 17, 2013 1:54:31 AM > > Bill!, > > How the hell do you survive crossing those busy Thai roads if you dismiss the > relative as just illusion? In fact, why even bother? You need enough ego to > cross the road safely as well as perform other responsibilities you may have. > Simply saying everything is "illusion!" or "dualistic" is dismissive to the > point of absurdity. > > "Speeding? Sorry officer, but speed is an illusion. She's dead, you say? > Death is illusory. And 'she' is just creating a dualism. And you know that > dualisms are illusory. Ouch! No problem - the 'pain' from that taser is just > illusory". > > > > > > is There are not two sides of the coin. There are not two sides of the coin. > There is only one. What you perceive as the 'other side' is a dualistic - an > illusion. > > The illusion of 'being human' and believing that to be 'special' or 'unique' > is no different from the illusion of self. Both these illusions (all > illusions really) only server to create an illusory distinction from what you > then perceive attachment fades enough I then do remember that this is all > illusion; and yes it does ameliorate the immediate suffering and eventually > dissolves it entirely. > > I would certainly comfort someone who is suffering. I would try to assure > them that things will get better. BUT, even in their time of greatest sorrow > if they asked me IN ALL EARNESTNESS (as is the litany in most koans) how to > alleviate the suffering I would tell them the truth. Suffering is caused by > attachment to illusions. I would actually not just tell them this but would > suggest they sit (zazen) because just telling someone something is not really > effective. They must experience it for themselves. I personally don't believe > misleading someone is helpful to bring them to this experience. > > I sometimes feel you display a balanced, patronizing relativism that may > serve to reinforce your illusion of compassion, but in practice falls > woefully short. > > The koan HYAKUJO AND THE FOX was indeed about the percieved interplay between > absolutism and relativism. The warning however was not just about absolutism, > it included relativism also. attaching to illusion and when the attachment > fades enough I then do remember that this is all illusion; and yes it does > ameliorate the immediate suffering and eventually dissolves it entirely. > > I would certainly comfort someone who is suffering. I would try to assure > them that things will get better. BUT, even in their time of greatest sorrow > if they asked me IN ALL EARNESTNESS (as is the litany in most koans) how to > alleviate the suffering I would tell them the truth. Suffering is caused by > attachment to illusions. I would actually not just tell them this but would > suggest they sit (zazen) because just telling someone something is not really > effective. They must experience it for themselves. I personally don't believe > misleading someone is helpful to bring them to this experience. > > I sometimes feel you display a balanced, patronizing relativism that may > serve to reinforce your illusion of compassion, but in practice falls > woefully short. > > The koan HYAKUJO AND THE FOX was indeed about the percieved interplay between > absolutism and relativism. The warning however was not just about absolutism, > it included relativism also. > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone > > From: Bill! <[email protected]>; > To: <[email protected]>; > Subject: [Zen] Re: Hello > Sent: Wed, Apr 17, 2013 12:32:26 AM > > > Mike, > > There are not two sides of the coin. There is only one. What you perceive as > the 'other side' is a dualistic - an illusion. > > The illusion of 'being human' and believing that to be 'special' or 'unique' > is no different from the illusion of self. Both these illusions (all > illusions really) only server to create an illusory distinction from what you > then perceive is 'everything else'. Duality is this two-sided coin you have > created. > > Of course I suffer. I do so because I get sucked into (attach) to illusion > the same as everyone else. Even after attaching to illusion and when the > attachment fades enough I then do remember that this is all illusion; and yes > it does ameliorate the immediate suffering and eventually dissolves it > entirely. > > I would certainly comfort someone who is suffering. I would try to assure > them that things will get better. BUT, even in their time of greatest sorrow > if they asked me IN ALL EARNESTNESS (as is the litany in most koans) how to > alleviate the suffering I would tell them the truth. Suffering is caused by > attachment to illusions. I would actually not just tell them this but would > suggest they sit (zazen) because just telling someone something is not really > effective. They must experience it for themselves. I personally don't believe > misleading someone is helpful to bring them to this experience. > > I sometimes feel you display a balanced, patronizing relativism that may > serve to reinforce your illusion of compassion, but in practice falls > woefully short. > > The koan HYAKUJO AND THE FOX was indeed about the percieved interplay between > absolutism and relativism. The warning however was not just about absolutism, > it included relativism also. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > > > Bill!,<br/><br/>As I see it, you are correct but only from one side of the > > coin (the Absolute). But this denies what it is to be human. We also > > operate from the relative, even those of us who are awake to the illusion > > of a self. Can you honestly say that you wouldn't suffer in the event of a > > personal tragedy involving a loved one (God forbid)? Does knowing that > > suffering is an illusion do anything other than slightly ameliorate the > > suffering (by not wallowing in the hurt, perhaps)? Imagine saying to a > > mother who has list a child that the suffering she feels is an just an > > illusion. Is that compassionate, even though it is true in the absolute > > sense? That pain is very much "real" because it *is* experienced in the > > relative. Time and again Zen masters have warned against operating from the > > absolute only (Hyakujo's Fox). I sometimes feel you display a kind of > > unbalanced, macho realist/absolutism that misses the mark of what > > Compassion truly is. > > <br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone > > > > >
