William, I agree with your post below. Zen is all about experience and not about reading or teachings. If you're really lucky the readings or teachings can lead you to an experience, but without the experience it's all just talk, talk, talk.
...Bill! --- In [email protected], William Rintala <brintala@...> wrote: > > I was drawn to Zen through the writings of Alan Watts and Eckhart Tolle. > There > was a simplicity devoid of the trapping of having to believe something or > having > to accept information that I know to have been adulterated through millenia > of > translations and editing. To practice, imo, one simply needs to open your > eyes > and be aware. Your experience is unique, your situation is your situation. > Start > from there. As many here will say all of the reading and teaching and > memorizing > that you might do simply are fingers pointing.  > > > > > ________________________________ > From: bobthomas564 <bobthomas564@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, April 26, 2013 11:18:03 PM > Subject: [Zen] Re: New > >  > Totally agree Bill, Zen is not a religion, and I find it slightly odd that it > is > Buddhism that drove many Zen greats including Hui Neng (diamond sutra). At > the > end, we meet the end, it doesn't matter if you are alive or dead, both are > wonderful and the earth continues to hum along either with you on it, or > buried > in it. > > Zen needed to be discovered to offer a logical, sceptical world another > vehicle > that suits those who are drawn to a spiritual non religion. Seems to me to be > more fundamental and honest than most religions. > > Having said this I am fully in favour of religions, as I think they offer > most > people more than the nihilism that abounds today. > > > Bob > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > Joe, > > > > I think your post below is a good introduction to the religion of Zen > > Buddhism, > >but I do want to note that IMO zen is not a religion nor dependent upon or > >co-dependent with the religion of Buddhism. > > > > Also, I'd massage your first paragraph to read, 'I think all the religions > >developed in a space and time that was appropriate to convey their founder's > >experience.' I offer this because the way you wrote it sounds like the > >religion > >proceeded the founder's experience rather than the other way around. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote: > > > > > > Welcome. > > > > > > I think all the religions developed in a place and time that was right > > > for > >their founders to have some sort of experience. After that experience, and > >after > >the death of the founders, doctrine and dogma develop naturally, and they > >accumulate. > > > > > > A few religions -- maybe most -- have "wings", or branches, that are > > > devoted > >to practice(s) in order to enable followers to have the same experience as > >the > >founder. One of these is the Zen tradition of Buddhism. > > > > > > > > There are different streams of Zen practice and tradition. > > > > > > And there are practices of other religions which look a bit like Zen > >practice, and involve meditation or contemplation. > > > > > > For example, there is Christian Contemplative practice; and, there is the > >Sufi school of Islam, which is the mystical, direct-experience, branch of > >Islam. > > > > > > The mystical branches are those that are not so much bound by "the Book", > > > as > >they are kept alive by actual, community, practice, usually involving direct > >experience of a fundamental nature, or Nature. > > > > > > Thus, I feel it would not be a good idea to mix all the religions of the > >Earth; but, if you feel drawn to direct- and awakened-experience yourself, > >it > >would be good to choose one tradition and find a teacher who can start you > >out > >on that sort of practice. I did this in Sufism, and then afterward did this > >in > >Zen Buddhism, and have stayed with Zen for the past 34 years or so. So far, > >so > >good. It seems like a good match, and seems to have a minimum of baggage or > >trappings, either ancient or modern. It seems basically Human, to me. > > > > > > That's what I was looking for: not something that would "train" me in a > >certain way, to conform with a book; but something that would open up > >something > >original in a human being, or restore something that was just covered up by > >education and societal training and conformance. This can definitely be > >found in > >Zen practice. > > > > > > If Zen practice interests you, it's important to know that you can get a > > > good > >introduction to it by a teacher. There may be Zen groups near you who have > >teachers. They may have "Newcomer Nights", or something like that, which > >would > >be a good time to show up. Maybe check out some local "Zendo" or Zen group > >on > >the web, and see their schedule. Or just show up when they are open and see > >what's going on. > > > > > > Good luck! > > > > > > People here at this Zen Forum group may have other suggestions. And of > > > course > >there's lots available to read. But Zen practice involves the whole person, > >and > >is a collaboration of body and mind. There's nothing better than getting the > >body involved earlier, as early as possible, and it's never too soon. > >There's > >almost nothing in books but encouragement. Encouragement to begin practice. > >Maybe you'll make a start. > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > "kaydam60" <kaydam1@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello all I know nothing about Zen. I enjoy the music and recently read > > > > a > >book about Edgar Casey and reincarnation. Found it very interesting and made > >some sense. I read a little about Zen and some of it sounds like what I read > >on > >Edgar Casey. Very interested. Was raised in a Christian household but have > >always had trouble buying into it. I think it covers some of what is next > >but > >with too much ceremony, like the Catholic faith. I liked the Secret but feel > >it's lacking something also. I truly think that if you could combine all the > >religions, you would have the answers. Thanks for reading and you will have > >to > >help me through this group thing. I'm a group virgin. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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