Hi Mike,
I love this. Yes, Samsara is the way to Nirvana. Both are labels, in a
second, it will reverse.
JM
On 5/29/2013 6:29 AM, [email protected] wrote:
Bill!,
All dualities, contradictions and paradoxes are reconciled in
buddhahood, so I don't see a problem. Doesn't Mahayana say that
Samsara is no different to Nirvana?
Mike
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: * Bill! <[email protected]>;
*To: * <[email protected]>;
*Subject: * Re: [Zen] Nature of Illusion
*Sent: * Wed, May 29, 2013 11:45:31 AM
Edgar and Mike,
So...Edgar has his thoughts. Mike has his thoughts. Merle has her
thoughts. I have my thoughts. We all make them and we all terminate
them. And they are all DIFFERENT! So are you really telling me that
you think there is a different set of reality for each person on this
planet that they make and terminate all on their own? That's about as
dualistic as you can get. Are you telling me you believe reality is
dualistic?
What you are describing is certainly not what I'd call reality. I'd
could call that individual perspectives, or perceptions - anything but
reality.
And as you know I call them all illusions.
If you do decide to continue to call thoughts reality, please call
them what you are really describing - realities - individual,
customized, temporary realities.
...Bill!
--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> Correct.
>
> As I've said over and over, illusion recognized as illusion is
reality, but illusion taken for reality is illusion.
>
> The thought in your head of "Edgar being a member of a boy band" is
a perfect example. It's a real thought but the thought is illusory.
>
> Now extend that to the entire world you think you live in and YOU'VE
GOT IT! Because the entire world you think you live in is a construct
of your mind. It exists so it is real, but it is an illusion.
>
> Edgar
>
>
> On May 29, 2013, at 12:49 AM, uerusuboyo@... wrote:
>
> > Edgar, Bill!,
> >
> > I don't have much invested in this topic, but just to clarify a
few things I'd like your feedback.
> > When we make our vows at every sit, one of those vows is "The
dharmas are numberless, I vow to master them". Applying that to this
topic, for me, means that a thought (a dharma) is real even if the
object of that thought isn't. For example, if I said Edgar is a 20
year old member of a famous boy band, then the thought is real (a
dharma) *even though* it is a delusional thought.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
> >
> > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...>;
> > To: <[email protected]>;
> > Subject: [Zen] Nature of Illusion
> > Sent: Wed, May 29, 2013 12:53:51 AM
> >
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> >
> > Philosophy and illusion
> > [edit]
> >
> > Just like many other words often used in a different sense in
spirituality the word "illusion" is used to denote different aspects
in Hindu Philosophy (Maya). Many Monist philosophies clearly demarcate
illusion from truth and falsehood. As per Hindu advaita philosophy,
Illusion is something which is not true and not false. Whereas in
general usage it is common to assume that illusion is false, Hindu
philosophy makes a distinction between Maya (illusion) and falsehood.
In terms of this philosophy maya is true in itself but it is not true
in comparison with the truth. As per this philosophy, illusion is not
the opposite of truth or reality. Based on these assumptions Vedas
declare that the world as humans normally see is illusion (Maya). It
does not mean the world is not real. The world is only so much real as
the image of a person in a mirror. The world is not real/true when
compared to the reality. But the world is also not false. Falsehood is
something which does not exist. if we apply this philosophy to the
above example, the illusion is not actually illusion but is false.
This is because in general usage people tend to consider lllusion to
be the same as falsehood. As per adishankar's a guru of monist
teachings the world we think is not true but is an illusion (not true
not false). The truth of the world is something which can only be
experienced by removing the identity (ego).
> >
> > Edgar
> >
> >
> >
>
