JMJM, I like you're characterization of 'inconsequential' or maybe we could say 'moot' better than my characterization of illusory. In fact the more I chew on this the more I think a term like that would be better for me to use most of the time I have been using 'illusory'. The term 'illusory' seems to have a negative connotation for a lot of people, and I don't intend it in that way. I'll have to do some more chewing...
Japanese Zen Buddhism does have the concept of 'joriki' and it is an energy that is used in koan study to build up a critical mass of doubt (or just plain nervous energy) to assist in kensho (initial experience of Buddha Nature). I experienced it myself. However when I did ask my roshi later just what 'joriki' was I do remember him telling me something like 'it's not important'. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote: > > Bill!, JMJM, > > Chi is definitely not illusory. The fact that few Western people are trained > enough to be open enough to sense it is something of a pity. That is > changing. > > I will say openly that Chi is of no consequence in Chan, any more than > breathing is. I know that some teachers may mention it or even help > individual students with issues concerning it, but this is due to awareness > of the matter being more common in China and probably in Japan than in the > West, so far. Again, that is changing. > > We can practice Chan, just as we practice Zen, and never mention Chi, just as > in Japan we don't need to mention ki. > > The more adept Chan and Zen yogis know all about Chi or ki or Shakti, and > don't need to talk about it. > > It is *not* a fundamental part of Chan. > > JMJM may give me some heat for saying this, but I'll just give him some Chi, > right back. Gladly. Chan is Chan. Chi is Chi. Breathing is breathing. > > --Joe > > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > I know 'Chi/qi' is a fundamental part of the belief system in Chan so I > > won't try to convince you it's just illusory, but that is my opinion. > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
