Suresh, I have never had an experience like that so you're correct that I don't know if what you and others describe is actually an OBE or an hallucination. I've never seen an UFO but I know that doesn't mean they don't exist and that all UFO reports are false or hallucinations.
I amended my judgement to just say that whatever it is it's not important to zen - and even that's just in my opinion. These kind of things are just not interesting to me. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "Suresh" <varamtha@...> wrote: > > > Dear Bill, > > It is not hallucination, It is a fact. You could not comprehend, since it did > not happen to you. Since it did not happen to you, it need not be a untrue. > > Read my article again, this part > > ===== > Maria was a migrant worker who had a severe heart attack while visiting > friends in Seattle. She was rushed to Harborview Hospital and placed in the > coronary care unit. A few days later, she had a cardiac arrest but was > rapidly resuscitated. The following day, Clark visited her. Maria told Clark > that during her cardiac arrest she was able to look down from the ceiling and > watch the medical team at work on her body. At one point in this experience, > said Maria, she found herself outside the hospital and spotted a tennis shoe > on the ledge of the north side of the third floor of the building. She was > able to provide several details regarding its appearance, including the > observations that one of its laces was stuck underneath the heel and that the > little toe area was worn. Maria wanted to know for sure whether she had > "really" seen that shoe, and she begged Clark to try to locate it. > > Quite skeptical, Clark went to the location described by Mariaand found the > tennis shoe. From the window of her hospital room, the details that Maria had > recounted could not be discerned. But upon retrieval of the shoe, Clark > confirmed Maria's observations. "The only way she could have had such a > perspective," said Clark, "was if she had been floating right outside and at > very close range to the tennis shoe. I retrieved the shoe and brought it back > to Maria; it was very concrete evidence for me." > > ======== > > Now you tell me can anyone hallucinate, a tennis shoe located somewhere else > and it was found exactly at the same location and same way it appeared as > described. > > Another point here is if believed or accepted karma and reincarnation, which > is the one in you which reincarnate? Certainly not the body and not the > intellect, it is the soul, the true life energy in energy form goes from one > body to other, until it is purified of attached forms. The word soul means > spirit, in zen terms it is consciousness or awareness. > > You are aware not through body, but your very nature is awareness. > > There are many siddhas story in south India, who is famous in quitting their > body and go and take other dead bodies and make it alive. > > You can also consciously try to separate the body and see yourself as pure > awareness. It is possible if you deeply meditate. > > Best regards > Suresh > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Â > > Â imagination suresh... merle > > Â > > Suresh, > > > > I would describe your and the female you mentioned experience of "seeing > > one's own body separate from the body" as an hallucination, and certainly > > nothing important vis-a-vis zen - other than it may have created just > > another attachment you're going to have to let go of some day. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], SURESH JAGADEESAN <varamtha@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Joe and all, > > > > > > I saw discussion on 'soul' in the forum since I have mentioned it. > > > > > > I want to know how you describe that my experience or that female in > > > the New science article, that seeing one's own body separate from the > > > body? > > > > > > A formless "I", the awareness seeing or aware of the body separately, > > > what you call this? > > > > > > Soul is just a word to indicate "awareness" or Consciousness. Our main > > > problem is that we don't know how to integrate knowledge. We got > > > distracted by different sounded words. Since I mention "soul" you > > > identify with Hinduism and separate it. > > > > > > Over words humans are separated, is it not some great mistake we do? > > > > > > Why we could not integrate knowledge? > > > > > > What Buddha spoke may be similar of Upanishad / shrutis, Advaita > > > Vedanta. But he did not refer to it, since his knowledge of his own, > > > born of his own experience, and found mistakes in following old Hindu > > > scriptures, he developed new way, but essentially what he found was > > > same as any Hindu rishis found and made it in Upanishad. > > > > > > Like wise every religious founders and many who has not founded any > > > religion, but found the ultimate truth has taught as pure philosophy > > > such as Socrates, Gurdjieff, JK, OSHO etc., > > > > > > Can we able to stop fighting over words? > > > > > > What is this word? > > > > > > A sound? > > > > > > Am I sound? > > > > > > From where this sound arises? > > > > > > I am also seeing, even eyes closed, there is seeing > > > > > > If seeing, am I light? > > > > > > Yes I am light > > > > > > From light sound arises > > > > > > From then whole cinema goes on. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > best regards > > > Suresh > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and best regards > > > J.Suresh > > > New No.3, Old No.7, > > > Chamiers road - 1st Lane, > > > Alwarpet, > > > Chennai - 600018 > > > Ph: 044 42030947 > > > Mobile: 91 9884071738 > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! 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